#5Women5Years: Being Where you Are with Gale Straub
Season Two of Wellness in the Wilderness is here and we’ve got an epic mini-season in store for you!
In May, we celebrated five years since we started Hiking My Feelings, and as we were outlining the different guests we wanted to have on upcoming episodes of Wellness in the Wilderness, I noticed a pattern. There are so many incredible humans who have been a big part of our journey - whether that’s helping us get the word out and affirming the work we do, making life-changing introductions, inspiring new adventures and campaigns, or helping us bring our programs to life. Now, we’re excited to share the first of five conversations with five women who have been a huge influence on the first five years of this movement - we hope you love these conversations as much as we do!
Big thanks to the team at Sawyer for seeing the vision and supporting the show, we couldn’t do this without you!
In this very special kick-off episode, I have the opportunity to turn the mic and interview the legendary Gale Straub, former host of the She Explores podcast - the first podcast to give us an opportunity to share the Hiking My Feelings story, not once but twice! When we reconnected around this interview, Gale was in the middle of reading and advance copy of my new book, Hiking Your Feelings: Blazing a Trail to Self-Love and requested that we walk through one of the chapters and utilize the prompts shared within to facilitate this conversation about Being Where You Are - we hope you enjoy it!
ABOUT OUR GUEST:
Gale Straub (she/her) is an audio producer and nature-lover who calls the Seacoast area of New Hampshire home. For almost a decade, she hosted and produced a podcast called She Explores, all about the different ways we find ourselves outside and a whole lot of incredible women moving through their respective journeys in the outdoors. Gale's also a twice published author and her most recent book is Women and Water, a collaborative effort with Hailey Hirst and Noël Russell. Today, Gale's working in audio, stepping outside whenever she can, and dreaming up other creative projects. You can stay in touch via her website: www.galestraub.com/newsletter and by searching her name on various social media platforms.
IN THIS EPISODE:
We catch up with Gale, who recently wrapped up an almost 10-year run hosting the She Explores podcast and learn about what is up next for her
Per Gale’s request, Sydney gives an intro to Chapter 7 of Hiking Your Feelings: Blazing a Trail to Self-Love - Being Where You Are: Unpacking Distractions
Sydney and Gale also go through the Mindful Miles prompts from Chapter 7, encouraging readers to use the prompts as conversation starters on and off the trail
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SHOW TRANSCRIPT:
Please note, we use Otter.ai to transcribe episodes and while the technology is impressive, it’s not completely accurate. Please excuse any missed words, nonsensical sentences, and missed interpretations of foreign language below:
Announcer 00:04
Welcome to Wellness in the Wilderness. Come with us on the trail of life as we inspire you to take a step outdoors, to disconnect from the distractions and reconnect with yourself. Sydney Williams and her guests will motivate you to get active and get well. Now, here's Sydney.
Sydney Williams 00:24
Welcome to Wellness in the Wilderness. I'm your host, Sydney Williams, author and founder of Hiking My Feelings and soon to be Hiking Your Feelings: Blazing a Trail to Self-Love, which will be released on March 12 2024. As you know from the last episode, or if you're joining us for the first time, and this is the one that you're listening to. My panel submission for South by Southwest is currently up for vote. So if you haven't already, and you want to hear me read this book, at South by Southwest next year. When we launch it, then you can go to hikingmyfeelings.org/vote to vote for our panel for panel picker for the South by Southwest festival. And yeah, I mean, what a what a treat. We've been just teasing this book, getting everything ready to go.
And now we are in this mini season five episodes, five conversations with five women that have been just instrumental and influential in the first five years of Hiking My Feelings. And when I was thinking about who I wanted to have here, I was thinking about like, what, what kinds of people have been awesome for us like everybody's awesome, but like how do I narrow it down to just five and the first person that came to mind was Gale Straub. Gale is the former founder show runner interviewer extraordinaire of the She Explores podcast and I'm gonna let her do the introductions today. So for me, I'm Sydney Williams. Nice to see everybody. Nice to hear you. You don't get to hear me. Whatever, it's fine. I'm here in Sequoia National Park. I'm in the parking lot at Lodgepole campground. Rock in the star link for this conversation. And this is the ancestral land of the Western Shoshone Western mono Manache people Paiute and Tabatalotl and yokuts. So, we are always down to clown and learn more about the folks that have occupied the lands and steward them stewarded them for 1000s of years before we got here, if you are interested in the same and if you aren't, I suggest that you like start being interested. A great way to start some research on that is using the native land app. And you can find that at Native-land.ca. And you can learn about the people that used to steward the lands where you now work live in place. So it adds a nice dimension to your outdoors experience. We love it over here and Hiking My Feelings. And without further ado, we're switching the things around today. Usually. Miss Gale is the one behind the mic doing the question asking, but today we're having a conversation. So welcome to Wellness in the Wilderness. Gale. It's nice to have you here.
Gale Straub 02:47
Thanks for having me, Sydney. And also in your intro. I have not heard the expression down the clown in a while. It made me smile and feels like a very Sydney thing to say.
Sydney Williams 02:58
Yeah, you're welcome. Especially when we're talking about indigenous land. Of course, we're down to clown that makes total sense. Nailed it. All right. Well, uh, okay. So let's jump right in. You recently had a big career transition. Do you want to give us the debrief on what happened? What is happening? What has happened and what is happening next?
Gale Straub 03:19
Sure. Yeah. So you know, as you said, I'm Gale. I started a blog and podcast called She Explores nine years ago now so released over 200 episodes of The She Explores podcast, and not totally alone with the help of different people over the years including Haley Hearst, Noel Russell or Laura Borischevsky and many more Gabaccia as you know, who has done a lot of work with Hiking My Feelings. But yeah, so just a couple of weeks ago, made the announcement that She Explores was closing down as was the sister kind of for parent company, rival media. And now I have a whole lot more time on my hands. I'm working full time for a podcast production company as a senior producer working on a few different projects and getting to continue to learn in audio which I fell in love with through She Explores so as much as I'm super grateful to all the women who I got to connect with through She Explores which is a show all about kind of finding yourself outside. I'm really grateful that it also gave me my love of audio and I'm curious to see you know where that takes me over time. I also am the producer of a show called Creative Fuel that's hosted by honor bonus and stay tuned there may be a season two coming in in the coming months.
Sydney Williams 04:47
Amazing yay. Well we're really glad you're here and by we I mean me myself, I and Barry in the front seat of the van where we're currently recording. And to kind of kick things off, this is the first of five conversations with five women that have been influential in the first five years of Hiking My Feelings and in the spirit of the new book that's coming out. And like, honestly, were so ahead of the game on the promo on this, like I, when I realized that the book was going to be published in March during the same week at South by Southwest, I happened to be at my mentor Aaron's house, and he was like, you should submit a panel and launch the book at the conference. And I was like, I should, that's a great idea. I haven't been in like the South by Southwest ecosystem for 13 years or something. Now, by the time we get there, it'll be 13 years. So this is we're a little bit ahead of schedule, but I wanted to announce the book in time for people to vote for the panel. And if you're going to vote for the panel, then you have to know that the book is happening. Like we were going to wait until like September, October when the publisher goes. But I was like, listen, team, this is just too exciting. We got to tell somebody, and if I'm going to tell them to vote for the panel, they got to know that the book is coming. So here we are. And when I was chatting with Gale about what we could do, and how we could chat and what kinds of things we could possibly talk about, because there's so many, Gale had this excellent idea of going through one of the chapters and just walking through some of the new structure of the book, because this is a departure from the original book, Hiking My Feelings, Stepping into the Healing Power of Nature. So I'm gonna walk you through chapter seven per Gale's request. We're like ahead of schedule here too. So this is like super promo-y and super exciting, and getting everybody ready for when this book comes out in 2024. So chapter seven is called being where you are. And the topic is unpacking distractions. So the story if you're familiar with my first book, you know that I did this hike across Catalina and 2016. And then a few months later, I went to Paris with my best friend Kat. And then we came back and we started paddleboarding. And like all of these things combined together, the international travel, the remote wilderness experience that I had had months prior to the international travel, all of it just kind of started flowing together. And what I realized was the lessons that I had learned on the trail, were now starting to like infiltrate the other parts of my life. And so I talked about being on the Paris Metro and surrounded by humans speaking all kinds of languages wearing all kinds of clothes from all walks of life, tall people, short people, people of all sizes, all races, all different levels of ability on this train. Nobody, in my earshot was speaking English. So I was like, whoa, I'm like a left alone with my positive thoughts, because I'd like started thinking positively about myself about my body on the trail earlier in 2016, and by the time I got to Paris, I was like, whoa, this feeling of like, calm, is present on a train, like, how does this work? This doesn't make sense to me. So in the story, we talked about how all these different things started to come together and make sense for me, like I, in the absence of people speaking English, and speaking negatively about themselves or other people, or in the absence of just tons of media in English, whether that's written or audio, or visual, like, there was no distraction, and there was nothing telling me that I wasn't enough. So I started for like 10 days, running around Paris to believe that I was, and it was transformational. So it makes sense that I had these kinds of dots connecting. But the great thing about hiking your feelings is that I don't just leave you hanging with a story where I'm like, so my dots connected, don't you love it? Now, there's an opportunity for you to connect your own dots. So in I had mentioned this in our, our last episode, when I was running through like the different chapter structures and how things are a little bit different. But we tell the story of how this trip to Paris, brought these lessons from the trail into other areas of my life. And then there's the trail of life section, which kind of zooms out, and it's kind of just like, giving you the What's up about what just happened for me and how this could possibly apply to you. And then there's the mindful miles section. So I thought it might be fun to go through the mindful miles section, I'm going to answer my own questions that I asked myself and then I'm gonna turn it around on Gale. And we're just going to have a conversation about being where we are, especially in light of Gale's recent professional transition, in light of everything that we've got going on for Hiking My Feelings, celebrating five years celebrating this new book that's coming out next year, and all the things that will happen between now and then. I figured like this was a really nice opportunity for us to kind of get grounded, give listeners a sense of like, what's coming up in the book and give you something to chew on. So here we go. Um, You got thoughts Gale, before we jump in on this?
Gale Straub 10:02
I do have thoughts, I was gonna say that I one, I love that in the format of this book. And I told you this over email too, I love that you are vulnerable to start and that then you follow with these prompts that makes it like easier for the reader to kind of open up with themselves. And then adding to that by you and I doing these exercises together, I would feel even more comfortable sharing, you know how I feel about things because you're doing it too. So it also seems like it could be a fun book to pass around with a friend or like, talk about some of those questions with a loved one. Because you might be surprised what their answers are. I started asking my parents, what their worries are like, what's kind of on their mind. And just because these are things that we hold in so often. So yeah, just thinking about, like the different conversations that your book had start, which is really cool.
Sydney Williams 10:57
Oh, well, thank you. And I think that that's that. And that brings up a great point that I didn't mention, there's lots of ways to read a book and consume content. And if I was going to suggest a way to enjoy this book, read it through, and then get the whole gist. And then when you have like when you come up on something like remembering how to be present, turn to chapter seven, go for a hike, use these prompts. It's something that can be enjoyed as a memoir, and it's also something that can help with the different prompts and the different activities. So thank you, Gale. for that. Let's jump right let's do one.
Okay, so Mindful Miles, I'm just gonna go ahead and read it, whatever. It's a paragraph by publisher can't get too mad about it. Okay, so there are so many things competing for our attention. This is true, our own lives, the needs of our community, what's happening in the world with our fellow humans. And when we have so much access to so much information, it's no wonder we're overwhelmed. Hello, we're all burned out. We're feeling like there isn't enough time in the day to do what we need to do, let alone what we want to do. So we're going to use these prompts to do a quick check in with ourselves and each other. And if you're listening, and you want to jump in and do this with us, and like Come find us on social media, leave a comment. Like let's have a conversation. Okay, ready to go. So, question number one for me. When was the last time I sat in silence without distraction. When was the last time I spent more than two days away from my phone? The last time I sat in silence without distraction. I do this like every day. And I say that with like a deep respect for the privilege that I hold to live in a national park as we're recording this and knowing that we only get online like once a day. So sometime between the hours of 10 and two, we'll get online and we'll check in and make sure that the world is rolling. So the last time that I sat in silence without distractions, like legitimately sat in silence without distractions was on our hike on Monday, Barry and I hiked out to Alta Meadow, and it was like 15 miles round trip. And there was a brief well actually do marmots count as distractions. Gale like would you count a marmot as a distraction, because I'm thinking back to the story. And I'm like, I don't like I the way that my body currently operates. Though, I feel extremely comfortable in it. I'm not one to just sit with silence, like I process in motion. I'm not afraid of sitting in silence. But if I think about silence without distractions off the top of my head, I genuinely can't remember the last time that happened. But if I'm gonna go like with the asterisk next to it, then it was on Monday on our hike to Alta Meadow. Because we went at the halfway point where we turned around, I was like, let's just sit and take in this insane view. If you guys haven't seen Alta Meadow, go Google it and you'll probably get the shot of like the meadow in the mountain range in the background. It's insane. It's like a painting. I couldn't even believe that it was real life. And in my eyes, were seeing what I was seeing. The rock we were sitting on though was right next to the rock that a marmot family had built a home under. So we go and we sit and we had seen our Marmot like off in the distance on another rock sunning himself and barking every once in awhile. And then as we sat and got quiet, and I was eating my snacks, one by one, there were like two marmots and like they came up to the little house and then like dove under the rock, and then they came back up. So I don't think that those are distractions. I think that's me being without distractions, completely tapped into and tuned into my environment. That's how I'm framing that. So the last time I sat without distractions was on Monday. And then the last time I spent more than two days away from my phone. That's a good question too. Because the context in which I'm asking this is for normal people that are connected all the time. So I'm asking you like when was the last time you put your phone down? For me in particular, this question is also a little bit complicated because like I go days without checking my phone, because we're not connected. to the internet. But I use my phone as a camera. So I still have it at the ready in case a bear comes through camp and we need to like take pictures of it before we tell it to go away. So, so far, I'm not doing great on my own question. How about you, Gale? What is the last time you sat in silence without distractions?
Gale Straub 15:20
Well, one thought I have in listening to you describe and question whether or not you were distracted or not, by those marmots, made me think about the fact that like, so often when we are, or at least when I'm distracted, it means I'm not absorbing. So it's like, I'm either a sponge that like has too much water in it. Or I'm just covered head to toe and like a raincoat and everything's just coming off me. And that's what I want. That's like my armor. So I don't have to absorb anything, nor do I have to like listen to whatever's going on on the inside. So I would argue that the marmots were, were not a distraction. But I think you came to that too. But oh, when was the last time that I was not distracted? I mean, I think it an easy answer would be I was with family over the weekend, and I was kayaking on a lake. And but I was getting from like point A to point B, I had a reason but I felt this like sense of like, play that I hadn't felt in a while. So I was there were a lot of kids around and I was kind of feeling a little bit like I was on an adventure, you know, a really small adventure. But I felt like I was on an adventure. And I wasn't thinking about what else I needed to do or anything, I guess negative in my life. I wasn't necessarily feeling introspective, but I was feeling very in the moment so. And I definitely feel like I'm someone who needs more play in her life. So that I would say that was a moment just a few days ago. And then in terms of not having not being connected to the internet, I think it that likely would have been a backpacking trip. And I sadly haven't been backpacking in a really long time not since it's almost I'm almost embarrassed to admit it, but like December 2019, pre COVID and went on a backpacking trip for She Explores it was for a project through the Cairn Project, and I was doing an episode about this nonprofit organization. And I guess I was connected in a lot of ways. But I was really focused on connecting with the people around me. And I felt different after that. So that was in the Superstition Mountains in Arizona. So I definitely am due for a disconnected backpacking trip. And I'm yeah, I'm due for a lot of things, but
Sydney Williams 17:53
Well, I think yeah, well, I think it also brings up a good question. This is kind of like self editing, which you know, too late now. But like, what I guess like this is this brings up a good point is like, what is a distraction? Right? And like, can we define that for ourselves? Because in my mind, like, even though I wrote this book, and even though I wrote these prompts, and even though this would never be my answer, in my mind, the right answer air quotes, is I sit in silence without distraction every day for multiple hours, right? Like, there's this like, like, the guru in me is like, well, if you're not sitting on a tuffet, just pure meditation, but even then, like when you're meditating, you get distracted. So like, it doesn't mean that you're not doing it right or that you're not taking that time for yourself. So I think like, what is the distraction marmots in this case? Not that's a function of the environment, because I wouldn't say that the flowers were distracting. I wouldn't say that the mountains were distracting. So I guess like environmental things are not distractions. And I think to your point about your trip with the Cairn Project. Yeah, you were connected to things that require electricity, but also like the depth of connection that you were having with those humans in that space was above and beyond the internet or technology, I guess.
Gale Straub 19:07
Yeah. Yeah. And in those moments, I wouldn't have been worried about you know, an errant comment or you know, something blowing up. Right beyond my control. A lot of it's about control for me, I think I think yeah. So I you know, often the distraction is just a way to control and to like keep worries at bay. So, it often has been like a scary thing to to not have a distraction. I know you write about that in your book too.
Sydney Williams 19:38
Well, and the next question is, if you've never spent time away from your phone, social media, emails, etc. For those folks that are listening or reading the book later that haven't done that. The question is, is it possible you're trying to distract yourself from something like by all the distractions What are you distracting yourself from? In that question, I'm like, for at least for me, it was like, note And the first thing that comes to mind that you're possibly trying to distract yourself from when you're asked that question is usually the right answer. Like, it'll have a funny way of showing itself. But I think since we both had opportunities to be away from our devices, then we'll we can pass over that one. But this is a big one. I'm not ready, but I'm going to do it.
When was the last time I asked my body what it needs? And have you ever given it a chance to answer. I'm going to say again Monday on the hike to Alta Meadow. Um, so I got these new shoes from Solomon and they're mid height boots, but they're not like really rigid around the collar of the ankle and they're not like super tall. They're like mid height. And I on our hike that we did last week, up to the Watchtower here at Sequoia National Park. I had this like weird pain on the outside of my left ankle and I thought it was just at the time I thought it was just like rubbing a bug bite because there are so many I got bit like I was human pin cushion the first couple of weeks we lived here. So it was like that's uncomfortable. It's not like it's not actual, it's not pain when I'm stepping it's not pain in stride. It's just like when I it was specifically it was like after mile nine going downhill. Then my ankle started to like rub on my shoe. And I was like This is annoying, but then on. On our hike on Tuesday this happened again. And I was like yo body what up? Like what is happening here? Because like I said, at the time we went by the time we got back to the van because we were like, you know, midway through the hike and this was going on again. And I was like it feels like swollen. It was warm to the touch. But I'd also been scratching it because I was like, well maybe if I scratch it, it will be better than it never is. And so I was like what is this? And then I like went to sleep on Tuesday night I woke up on Wednesday. That's today. Wow, I keep talking about this hike. Like it happened forever ago. So I woke I went to bed. And then I woke up this morning and I like stood just flat foot. And I like rubbed my hands down the sides of the outsides of both of my legs. And I was like this is noticeably different. And it feels a little crunchy. And so I'm not a doctor, as everybody knows by now. But between myself and my husband, who's a former wilderness, EMT and regular EMT and myself in this body that I know and love and trust. I think it's just like some kind of inflamed sheath around a tendon like it doesn't hurt when I walk. It's not really a pain in the butt except for when I wear tall shoes. So like maybe just don't wear tall shoes for a bit. So I when I was originally writing this book back in 2019, and I was using these prompts to get to this destination of this answer. My because my question to myself was when was the last time you asked yourself, like your body what it needs? And have you ever stopped to listen? I think that there's like, in my personal journey through body image, right? Like, there's the I am completely unaware that I am enough. And all I do is berate myself, and wish I was smaller and wish I looked different and wish I could change the things about my body that I just can't change. Like that was the first 30 years of my life. And then like I went backpacking, and I was like, whoa, okay, I am acutely aware of everything that's happening in my body, I feel every drip of sweat, I feel the blood coursing through my veins, I am acutely aware of the blisters and the intensity of the pain on my feet, and just my muscles that were irritated. But also, I feel great. And I want to do more of this. And so like the shift for me was from gotta be smaller, gotta change everything about me to fit into some box that some man who makes clothes decided was beauty, like, and then being in my body and working it really hard. I was like, Okay, I, I feel good afterwards, like I'm in pain, but my head is clear. And I'd like to do more of this. And I don't want my body to be the thing that takes away from the enjoyment of this activity. Like I don't want my body to be the thing that gets in the way. And so that was a huge shift for me because then I was like, okay, like I recognize this body. It's clearly it's working really hard for me and I have a tremendous amount of respect, considering how poorly I've treated it and how poorly I've spoken to myself about the body that I live in. This thing's really delivering for me without any training whatsoever without any like, understanding of what I was actually getting myself into my body took me all as far as it could go across the island and I loved it. So now like this question to me, I'm like I am so I do spend time thinking about my body still, but it's not and now it's like okay, I should wash my face before I do this thing on the internet because I've got like salty, sleepy tears and like lots of wrinkles. So like I'm just figuring, like, my body's changing because I'm getting older. But I'm like but I then I like look at this woman that I interviewed who's 102 years old and she called me kiddo Because I am like in the context of being in community with somebody who's 102, I am a child. So like, what am I worried about? I've got the rest of my life to live life in this body and not hate it like that is awesome. So, when I read this question, I am just so grateful for how hard I've worked, and how much I've released and how much I've unlearned about what it means to be a woman in a body in America, to be able to sit on the other side of that question and be like, I tune in with my body, like every day, and I always listen, most of the time I hear what my body has to say before my brain even knows what it's thinking. So like that that switch has just completely flipped. That table has turned whatever the metaphor is, like, it's such a weird and beautiful thing to be on the other side of that question and not freak out about it. Like and have a lot of weight attached to it. That feels really good. How about you? When was the last time you asked your body what it needs Gale?
Gale Straub 26:04
Ah, you answering that question made me think about an interview that I did with Carrott Quinn. I don't know if you know that writer. Her finger first book was through hiking will break my heart and prolific writer. And I could just hear her voice in my head saying embodiment is like one of the hardest things that we'll ever do, you know, feeling feeling your body. And that's what all of that first question was about, for me in terms of like, the distractions. And that is what's so nice about hiking or backpacking is that like, you kind of start to treat your body like it's a little baby, because you're like, Oh, my feet, hurt and you you bandage them up. And at the end of the day you eat, you know, that great meal that you've been drinking, about drinking about thinking about? This, sometimes the drink involved? You know, there's, there is these ways that you kind of baby yourself. And it is a matter of like carrying that into your everyday life. Like, like, it sounds like you have. And then so often, especially throughout the pandemic, I felt like I was like a balloon, like my head was a balloon, just floating in front of a computer screen. Oh, you know, I it was like, I didn't have a body. My body was that little dangling string. And I'm so when was the last time I gave my body what it what it truly needs. That's what the bigger question is, for me is like what is I'm still trying to figure out what it needs. But I'm trying to listen to it better, because I've been getting a lot of migraines, and I am some of that's triggered by screen time or not listening to myself when I haven't had enough water or what I mean chugwater. So it might not be water. But when was the last? If I do think about a time. A time recently? It's so hard. That's such a hard question. And it doesn't bring up body stuff for me, like I don't have I feel fortunate to not have body issues anymore. I did when I was a teenager and in my 20s. And I think those things do kind of carry through forever. But I'm in terms of like, I could do a better job of treating myself just across the board. And so treating myself to, to time alone to reading a book to lying down to if I don't have a million things to do just enjoying that versus feeling guilty about it. But I think I will treat myself to a longer walk tomorrow and that and that I can I can plan on that.
Sydney Williams 28:41
Oh, I love it. Yes. And I and I think that you demonstrated something that I want to like, articulate and call out for anybody that's listening is like with all of these prompts with anything in this book with anything in life for crying out loud. Like, take what works for you and leave the rest. Like if something applies now. Awesome. If it doesn't also fine. And if you come up on this question, and you're like, you know, I don't actually remember the last time that I asked myself what I need or gave myself what I need, then that's fine to the awareness of the time that has passed since you asked that is the work and a great way to like not and I'm speaking specifically to myself and for myself here. A great way to not berate yourself and to be like oh well Sydney asked when was the last time I asked my body what it needs and it turns out I've never done that. So here I am socking at this too like, Don't do that to yourself. Like just like acknowledge the time that has passed if if it's ever happened, make a note like oh, this is something I could do for myself. I wonder what that looks like. And then like, make an action plan like Gale's like I don't know when the last time I was like yeah, maybe these migrants but also like I could go for a walk tomorrow. And that's good like that. Like the answers to these questions don't have to be spoken they don't have to be written they can be felt they can be physical. They can be turned into action. Like it's like, I want to I think one of the reasons I've said before that this book is the book that I was too scared to write in 2019, because I was afraid that because nevermind that I had lived this and I have like case study of one results to show that this is true and that it's possible. I don't have letters after my name, I don't understand like, the medical mechanics of like what happened. But that doesn't mean that it's not true. That doesn't mean that it's not possible. And when I was afraid to write this back, then one of the reasons I was afraid to write it in this way, with questions with prompts, is because the last like 10 years of my life, prior to writing this book, I had been consuming so much self help material, that every single one felt like this is the only way to heal. And it was kind of positioned that way like this is the right way. And there's no right way to do anything. There's no right or wrong way to go through this book. There's no right or wrong way to heal from the things that you've experienced, there's no right or wrong way to start getting into the outdoors. I mean, there is a wrong way like don't go out barefoot in the hot hot sand without any water, that would be wrong. But like, for anybody that's listening like you can, you can do this, however, feels good to you. And there is no right or wrong way to go about approaching this material or approaching your healing journey. Like I'm here to offer suggestions, we're here to offer some prompts. But like at the end of the day, this is work that we have to do for ourselves. Like you can read the book, you can go to a therapist, you can see a doctor, you can go to a nutritionist, all the things that are supposed to make us like happy, healthy, wealthy and wise. But at the end of the day, it's up to us, like we have to do this for ourselves, Gale has to take herself for that walk and ask yourself these questions, I can't do it, I have to make sure that I eat right and then I move my body or else diabetes is gonna come knocking like these are, these are things we have to do for ourselves, but we don't have to do them by ourselves. And so that's why I love having this conversation. And I love that you pointed out like this could be a really cool way to relate with people in your life, like pick up this book and have these chats with people on the trail or off the trail. So I love that. That's fun. So um, okay, so then that was the mindful miles section. So the intention is, you can use those as journal prompts, you can use those out on the trails, if you want to go for a hike. If you're like, Man, I haven't been present in a minute. And this chapter is really reminding me of that, then go off for a hike and use these prompts. And like the way mindful Miles is designed is similar to how when we're in like a seated or guided meditation, the meditation person, the person leading it will tell you to return to your breath. If you get like squirrely brain and just focus on your breathing, take some deep breaths, count them, whatever this is that too. Because ideally, if you're doing this in motion, then you're breathing. Because that is important. And when you start to think about these things, one of the reasons why I love Hiking My Feelings as a practice is for years, I tried to do all of this. But I didn't have the the practice to go with it. So like I had tried to think about asking my body for what it needs. But then like my body would freak out. And I'd be like, Oh, no, I don't like this sensation in my body. And I shut down. And I've stopped addressing that topic, because it didn't have anywhere to put that energy that wanted to make me run. But if you're doing this while you're on the trail, and you're in motion, and your body starts to react, then you can be like, Oh, I'm having a reaction. But you know what I'm not going to do, I'm not going to run away from the feeling I'm just going to maybe I'll hike a little faster and expend the energy. And that's a really cool way to like bring this all together and bring it into a practice that can feel good for you like anytime that you feel like you need to get president than like grab on Mindful Miles prompt and go out and take a walk like it's it's it's there for your use. however you'd like to do it. That's how I'd recommend doing it. So there. That's Mindful Miles. Gale, have there been any hikes like so obviously the trans Catalina trail is the vehicle for my discovery of all these things. Does this concept of like having lessons that you learned on the trail that then show up in other areas of your life? Like do you have anything like that or any hikes in particular, where you've just been like, oh, like I am here, I am present? I am feeling this like have any do you have any stories about hikes or anything like that, that have brought you some lessons from the back country into the front country?
Gale Straub 34:28
Yeah, I do.
Sydney Williams 34:29
Oh, do you want to share?
Gale Straub 34:31
Can you imagine if I didn't?
Sydney Williams 34:33
I'd be like an edit Barry. This is where we cut this question. No, but you're good. Would you like to share your story?
Gale Straub 34:39
Yeah, yeah, I can share actually two, two experiences come to mind. And one is more of like a collection of experiences and it's not. It's I didn't I'm actually I would not say I'm someone who experiences too many revelatory moments like it takes me a really long time to figure out how I feel about things takes me a really long time to, to understand myself. I always call myself a marinater, or I'm not sure if that's true or not, but it just takes it takes me a while. So some of these lessons are just hindsight, you know, being able to look back. But when I wouldn't go, I'm gonna go like really far back of this. When I was in high school, I ran track and cross country, and I have a twin sister and she also ran track and cross country. And when we were really little, when we were kids best friends spend time all the time together, did a lot of imaginary play together, like a lot, probably more than the average kid, especially because we had each other we had like the quote, unquote, built in best friend, and she's still my best friend today. But once we hit puberty, we didn't have anything anymore. Like if you know, it wasn't you couldn't, couldn't play in the same way. And I found myself like, with this void, and not knowing how to fill it and not necessarily having a lot, not being a super social person, or having a ton of like deep relationships to lean on in that time period. So when my sister and I were like, 13-14, we watched a lot of TV, we stay up late watching like friends marathons. It really ages me. But that's what, that's what we would do like eating popsicles, whatever. And it was really just kind of numbing. Or, it was it was just letting time pass. Like I always wanted time to go by faster, you know, partially to grow up partially to have like, whatever questions answered about myself. But the high school came around, found running cross country track, and we were both pretty good at it. And we figured out that the more time we put into it, the better we got. And my sister found out first that the lighter she was, the faster she was. And she started restricting how much she ate and started losing weight. And at the same time was starting to experience some like mental health difficulties, just generally, and the running was like something to really focus on. And I followed suit in a lot of ways. Like I wanted to be like my sister, I want to be as fast as her I wanted, I wanted us to be twins. And it created this like really unhealthy relationship with exercise and food. And it for whatever reason, we were not given, like the support that we needed at that time by by the people who were adults around us. So flash forward to being in college, I'm I didn't run in college, my sister went on, she ran in college, and she kind of worked through things her own way. And I did too. But one of the big things for me was when I was home from college, I was working at the factory that my dad works at in the summers and my parents every Sunday, we went for a hike together, we went up to the White Mountains, we get up super early, my parents didn't love crowds, and they wanted to like get on the trail as early as possible. And it took a while but I didn't. That time on the trail I didn't, I wasn't associating it with achievement, like, oh, I need to hike this many miles or this. This is what I'm eating today and balancing that out with what I was running with or what have you like it started to create a more holistic, like relationship with movement for me. And I think that might be one of the reasons why even today I'm not somebody who checks off bucket list hikes, or I don't do I love that there's the 48 4,000 footers in New Hampshire, there's all these different like lists that you can do. And I've hiked a lot of them, but I haven't kept track. And I think part of that for me is like not wanting to have that like close association with with movement, like I want it to be just being president enjoying that. And doing those hikes, deepen my relationship with my parents, and it also just let me let go of some of the some of the things that weren't serving me when it came to movement. And also, over time, just life got bigger, you know, and I'm fortunate for that. Unfortunately, you know, we didn't need medical treatment or you know, anything like that. Like I feel fortunate that I grew out of some of the the things that were holding me back in that way. Um, so that's one more of a cluster of hikes rather than like a big trip. But as it relates to distraction. Several years ago, and I've told this story on the she She Explores podcast, but I went for a hike in the Sierras with my friend Julie Hots and a few other women. And Julie is super considerate when when they're planning a hike. They always think about they put out a survey they asked you know how many days you want to be out there like do you want to have a rest day do you want to hike a lot of miles I've done backpacking trips, where I was hiking a lot of miles. And part of the thing that I enjoyed about I was feeling really tired at the end of the day and hiking, you know a lot and filling up that time and distracting myself. And Julie planned a day up in the Sierras at 10,000 feet where we wouldn't be hiking, where we just have a rest day. And I kind of I knew that was gonna happen, but I didn't really think about it. And then I'm on the trail and we're hiking the first day and it's mosquito-y and, and I realized, Oh, I didn't bring a Kindle with me. I didn't, I didn't bring like, I didn't bring her I didn't bring anything to distract me on that day that I had off. And I started like, I felt like my heart like go and my chin, my bottom my stomach. I was like, I don't know if I can do this. And it felt like oh, but I but I talked this talk about like solo hiking, you know, all these things. But I was like, when I was actually confronted with it, I was really apprehensive. And then the Day rolled around that we have the rest day and i i for a few hours in the afternoon just laid in my tent, and I ate jelly beans. And I thought about things. And it was just I felt so rested at the end of the day. So it was a good lesson for me to like, I don't need to panic if there isn't that thing. My company is enough a bag of jelly beans can be enough to you know if you really like sweets. But yeah, it was just like a good lesson for me. I think.
Sydney Williams 41:34
I love both of those stories. Because selfishly, I think like the first one taught you how to be where you are, right? Like you were with your parents. And that was enriching. And you were kind of redefining your relationship with movement. And that felt good. And so it was like this thing that brought you presence rather than, like, checking the boxes or keeping track of distance and like doing the math for like calories in calories out. Yeah. And then I love the second story. Because like you literally, you unpacked your distractions so much that you didn't even pack them. Like, you ju st didn't have any. But that I love that story and that your friend planned this day off. And I found myself in a similar situation twice the first time. And this is the first time that I can ever remember, like not having something to do and being incredibly confused by it. So a friend of ours, one of very skydiving students used to be a captain on a yacht. And he had invited us out on the boat with the boat owner and some other friends. And so this is my first time on like a nice boat and I were going out to Catalina Island. But we weren't getting off the boat. We just like pulled into a little cove and dropped anchor. And I was like now what and they're like this said, and I was like this is it like yeah, we're gonna make some food for it just full of drinks. You can jump off the side of the sucker if you want to go do a cannonball into the ocean. We got a cupple water toys, but like we're just here for the foreseeable future until we decide to leave. And that was like so uncomfortable. It was like, at first I was very resistant. I was like, What do you mean, this is it. But like, almost instantaneously. I was like, Oh, this is it. I'm just a gal on a boat in the middle of the ocean today. Like that's what I'm doing. And it was so interesting. Just to have that, that opportunity to not have anything to do. And also like there wasn't any cell service. We were in the middle of the ocean. Like we weren't on the side of the island that's close enough to get cell reception from Avalon. And I was just like, it was one of the best days because what did we do? I mindfully genuinely enjoyed the food that I was eating. I drank way too much that I should have but I loved every sip I took like deep deep belly laughs to kind of make you cry just like the total like epitome of a perfect summer day in Southern California. Especially if you're wealthy. Like if you just want to learn how those people live like it was just the best day and I was like okay, I can get used to this. And then like the actual like planning of a day off on our first trip on the trans Catalina trail and 2016 Since we were doing it between Christmas and New Year's they had a bunch of minimums from night stays at the different campgrounds because they didn't want people to just come for new years and then bounce they made you stay for longer. So we had to in order to get the itinerary right. We had to do a day off at little Harbor. And on little harbor it's on the other side of the island from any town any cell reception any anything. And it was the best day ever. Like it was so nice outside and we just had this beautiful place to chill out. And then the rains came that night but like that They off, like, my feet were like hamburger, they were just covered in blisters, I felt like ground beef was really terrible, like my hip had been really irritated from the hike the day before. And I just got to lay there on this, like, we basically had the beach to ourselves that day, because everybody leaves and then goes and does whatever they're doing on the trail, whichever direction they're traveling. Nobody's zeros on Catalina, it's a 38 mile trip, like nobody takes a day off. And it was and now like, We purposely every time that we've done the trail, and when we go and host our retreats, or like we go to little harbor, and we don't do anything, and it's it's an intentional break, for us to just exist and watch the world go by. And we got to know the patterns of the bison that roamed through the sights, 14, 15 and 16 each day, like we saw their patterns and their paths. And we were only there for two days. But it was a really nice way to just really tap into that space and have that experience. So I love that. Both of those stories for both of those reasons. Oh, I dig it so much. Okay, so then, if we're talking about this book, and chapter seven, so we've gone through the mindful miles prompts, you'd had this incredible conversation, we're remembering things, we're connecting dots, which is like literally my favorite thing to do when pretty much like if I could only do one thing for the rest of my life, it would be to connect dots and then share the dots that I'm connecting. That is kind of I guess I am doing that. So that's neat, yay me,
Gale Straub 45:28
Awww that' so great.
Sydney Williams 46:32
Like that is what I do with other people, sometimes with myself, sometimes with plants and animals. But the final section of each chapter of Hiking Your Feelings Blazing a Trail to Self-Love is called next steps. And this is taking those mindful miles prompts taking the theme of the chapter, the story that I tell the universal we have the lessons that we can all learn because like here's the other thing folks like. While my experience is definitely unique to me, and I have a very unique way of telling the story. The themes present in my journey are not new. Like we're talking about being present, we're talking about in other chapters, unpacking relationships, body image, how to not hate yourself, like these are things that like I would argue, every human goes through. And also if you're one of those humans who doesn't go through these things, the invitation is still open to call me and tell me how you live your life because I'd really like to know what it's like. But the final section is Next Steps. So this takes all of those things and gives you like one other thing that you can do in this case, two. So in the case of chapter seven, after you've unpacked your distractions, you might fair warning, become painfully aware of how tethered you are to technology, or the needs of others. And that ever so sexy promise, the productivity is success like that has been wall that I keep ramming my head into it full speed. Seems this is a hard one to unlearn that productivity equals success, or actually, yeah, we're unlearning that and learning that that's not true. Thank you capitalism. So a couple of suggestions to help folks tap into mindfulness and act on the new awareness. I don't know Does anybody still commute to work? Like I wrote this when people were still commuting to work? I'd let's assume yes, there are still businesses that run where people need to go to their jobs. There's lots of them that just goes to show how narrow my view is right now on where the world works
Gale Straub 48:34
Yeah, you're living in a national park.
Sydney Williams 48:36
I was like, Oh, well, I guess Yeah, people do commute here. Okay, so if you commute to work, like how long does that take? And the questions I'm asking is like, are you commuting in silence? Do you usually drive and listen to music? Are you listening to a podcast Are you hopefully not scrolling while you're driving, but like maybe at a red light, I don't know. Whatever your normal commute routine is? Do the opposite. So if you are usually somebody that's listening to music, or a podcast or an audiobook, try driving in silence, and see how that feels. And pay attention to the thoughts that come up. Like when somebody peels out in front of you. Pay attention to those thoughts. Understand where those feelings of irritation and frustration and possibly anger or rage manifest in your body. Um, and pay attention to your surroundings, which is a good idea when you're commuting anyway, but especially if you're passively commuting, like if you're on public transportation and you're not driving. Turn off all the all the distractions, the podcasts and music, watching Netflix, whatever, you're doing audiobooks, and just sit one. It is so uncomfortable to just sit in public like i It is weird, like eating by yourself feels strange to me. I used to do this when I was taking the train up to LA. Every week when I was working in agency life before Hiking My Feelings. I would just like sit and watch people and somebody who's not actively trying to distract themselves or look busy on public transportation to avoid human contact, makes other people wildly uncomfortable. Try on that dress for a day, put on those shoes, like, allow yourself to be the person that is so content with themselves. Even if you're faking it, that you can just sit here with your own company distraction free. It's a fun time. So if you do this, I'd love to hear how it goes. And then the next one is just like this is some basic like, give yourself a quick refresher. All of our phones, for the most part these days have apps that monitor screen time. And if you take a look at how much screen time you use, whether it's for different applications, or if maybe it's how you track how much you're reading, I don't know, like, when you look at how much screen time you're getting, the argument could be, but everything I'm doing is helpful. And it's productive. Like I'm using my phone to do a meditation, okay, well, then cool, or I'm using my phone to read books. Okay, great. Um, think about the things that are that are not helpful. And then take an, a little time inventory, and think about what you could do with that time instead. And that doesn't mean that you have to, like completely replace the behavior or the activity. But it's really fun to just see how much time you can get back. Like when we moved into the park, and we stopped being on our phones all day, we get these like weekly updates. And it's like, you use your phone nine hours less than you did last week, I was like, well, that's the difference between living in a park and living in society. That's it. It's like, it hasn't been that dramatic of a tick down each week. And some weeks, we're using our phones more than others depending on what we're doing. But it's just it's such an interesting thing to think about how much time we spend giving our attention to anything positive or negative, productive or not. Like we somebody, some people say we have the same amount of hours in the day as Beyonce, but what we're forgetting to mention and not acknowledging is the fact that Beyonce has a staff. So Beyonce has hair and makeup. Beyonce has a chef Beyonce has a nanny, I'm sure that she probably has a driver, I bet she probably doesn't drive her own car. Like the things that take us time that folks like Beyonce can hire people to do. We don't have we're not operating on the same time schedule. Technically, yes, we all have 24 hours, that's for sure. But what are the things that we can control? And how might that awareness of where we're spending our attention? Because there's a lot of competition for our attention. Everybody wants it. It's the hottest commodity in the world right now. What are we doing with it? And where does it go? When I did this for myself, back in the day, I was like, Oh, it was a 2007 beginning of 2017. So I had done the hike. The man who shall not be named was named president of the United States. And then my whole world exploded. And all I wanted to do was be informed about what was going on. And I was on Facebook all day, every day, cycling, just like constantly refreshing, having conversations, fighting with people about the, I don't know, basic human rights that were being tossed in the trash. And then I was like, Whoa, like, one, I'm not gonna go change anybody's minds out here on the internet, especially not the strangers I'm arguing with. And also, what can I do when I get five hours back, whether that's like the beginning of the day, wake up and scroll before you go to bed, lay down and scroll, like say you get five hours a day. Do you know how much cool stuff you can do for five hours, you could nap and like reset your body and regulate your nervous system, you could like learn a new recipe or teach yourself how to cook, you could go for a big ol hike, you could do nothing. You could take a bath, you could have a conversation with somebody that you love, like there's so much we can do with our time and attention. So this is just this next step in particular, it's just it's nothing new. But it's an opportunity to check in with yourself and see where can you get some of that time and energy back. How does that feel for you, Gale? Does that feel offensive? Or does it feel like an invitation?
Gale Straub 53:59
I'd say it feels like an invitation. And on the first point I would add for being more present on your commute. When I had a more traditional commute, I work from home now. I would get off stop or too early. And I would use that opportunity to walk and like get to experience the city of Boston that I was living in, in this different time of day. So maybe I can't remember if I listened I don't think I listened to music really. It was just like that was a little bit of me time before being surrounded by other people day. So that's another little tip to add to that. But no these are it's great advice. I've never done the the phone counter thing. So I was like oh I don't need another thing in my life to feel guilty about.
Sydney Williams 54:43
But here's the thing. I love that you say that though? Because like why why do you why would you feel guilty about it?
Gale Straub 54:52
I believe probably just speaks to tendencies for guilt. And and that chapter 15 That I was like, Huh? don't know if
Sydney Williams 55:00
I'm not quite ready. Oh, that's, that's when they might take a little bit of time not real time processing. So yeah, okay, well then great. And I think when it comes to our conversation Gale, and where you're at in life and the things that you have been shifting in and out of, and this is a, I mean ending. I don't want to say ending, I would say, putting a beautiful bow and the sprinkles on top of the She Explores journey is a huge deal. Like that is a ginormous chunk of your life in the in the context of the life you've spent on this planet. So far, nine years is a good chunk of it. And the timing between like of those nine years, like what was your starting age? And what was your ending age? If you don't mind me asking?
Gale Straub 55:51
I don't mind at all. 28 to 37. And I'm realizing with you saying that's a big chunk. It's like, oh, that's close to 25%. Yeah, that is indeed.
Sydney Williams 56:03
It's a big chunk. Yeah. And that's a big, impactful chunk, too. So, um, for me, Gale, I just, well, first of all, do you have anything else on your heart or mind that you'd like to share before I gush about how much I love you?
Gale Straub 56:18
I guess I'll just say that, and I will be carrying some of this conversation with me. I am flying to Norway on Saturday for creative retreat that, again, talking about privilege throughout this conversation, being privileged to get to do that. And I'm seeing as like a reinvestment in myself, and also some time to process that quarter of my life that that just kind of flew by. So thanks for for hosting this conversation and giving me some reasons to to reflect and to be a little bit less distracted when I can.
Sydney Williams 56:56
Oh, well, hot dog. You're welcome. And so while while we're keeping the gratitude and the love flowing, Thank you, Gale. Because without She Explores like, and I mean, who knows how this whole thing would have unfolded? But if it weren't for your gift of, I don't want to say like, No, I'm gonna say it, recognizing your good story, because that's not about me, that's about you. Like, yes, this is a good story. But also like, this is a skill that you possess, you possessed it over 200 times, sourcing these incredible stories and sharing them with all of us. Your ability to find a good story, or to recognize one, especially in my case, when literally nobody else is listening is huge, because for us. i i I don't think I'm giving She Explores too much credit and that that was the first podcast interview I had done about what I'm trying to do now, today still, the journey that I was on how I want to help replicate this experience and these opportunities for other people to have this kind of healing in nature. I don't I think I can confidently say that we wouldn't be where we're at today. If it weren't for She Explores not just from like the the metrics, like we talked about. I talked about I don't know if you talked about I talked about the She Explores the fact like I was on your podcast twice. And the two times that I did, we got so many more followers just from the exposure of having my story told on a platform that was popular. So like, on that note, a great trajectory and a super good boost for us to help get the word out. But more than that, I wouldn't know Gabbaccia. I wouldn't know Victoria. I wouldn't know countless other people that have sent us comments even still today, like people be like, I just heard your episode, I realized it's from five years ago, I just heard your episode, thank you. Like Gale, the the joy in my heart that I feel when I get to respond to messages like that. Like, that's why I do this like that, like that's the drug for me. And I am wholeheartedly and openly addicted to it. Like being able to help people and knowing that somebody somewhere who I never would have had the opportunity to meet now has language to articulate what happened to them. That is the entire mission of what I'm trying to do here. And that is possible, in part because of you. So thank you, from the bottom of my heart from every fiber of my soul and every cell in my body like your impact. Well, metrically can be measured in nine years, and however many episodes and all the website visits and all the comments and all the things like the heart and soul impact that is just intangible and immeasurable, but so deeply impactful. I just thank you. Thank you for helping me burn down my measuring stick of measuring what I thought mattered because what actually matters to me is having these kinds of conversations with people. And I didn't even consider that I could do a podcast until I started being on podcasts. So in that way, too, thank you because I was like, oh my god, I love talking to people. And now there's a platform for this. Like, I don't have to wait until somebody gives me a TV show. Like, you know, like, I can go do this myself. So from an inspirational perspective, thank you from a helping us get the word out perspective. Thank you from the connections made from this space. Just deep, deep gratitude for you, Gale. Thank you.
Gale Straub 1:00:27
Oh, you're welcome. I always just want to I just want people to be heard. So everybody I've worked with has wanted that too. So I'm glad that happened for you. Yes.
Sydney Williams 1:00:39
Oh, well, in the spirit of being here and unpacking distractions. Gale, thank you so much for joining us. And I think that's all I got for this. You got anything else you'd like to share?
Gale Straub 1:00:53
No, No, thank you. This was fun. I'm excited for your book to come out in the spring. And I have so many questions for you about what it was like working with a publisher this time around versus self publishing, but we can have that conversation another day.
Sydney Williams 1:01:10
I love it. Um, so if anybody wants to follow along with you on next steps, where can they get in touch with you? And where can they find that information? So the best place to find me these days is just go to my website, galestraub.com. That's g a l e like the wind. And I maybe will start a newsletter at some point. I don't know. But I know that I'm going to want to keep in touch in some way so you can subscribe to that there. Perfect. Thank you so much, Gale, and to everybody listening. Thank you for joining us for this episode of Wellness in the Wilderness. I hope that this conversation was a breath of fresh air. Until next time, take good care of yourselves take good care of each other dream big and be kind.
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