#5Women5Years: Doing Life (and Business) Differently with Gabaccia Moreno
Season Two of Wellness in the Wilderness is here and we’ve got an epic mini-season in store for you!
In May, we celebrated five years since we started Hiking My Feelings, and as we were outlining the different guests we wanted to have on upcoming episodes of Wellness in the Wilderness, I noticed a pattern. There are so many incredible humans who have been a big part of our journey - whether that’s helping us get the word out and affirming the work we do, making life-changing introductions, inspiring new adventures and campaigns, or helping us bring our programs to life. Now, we’re excited to share the first of five conversations with five women who have been a huge influence on the first five years of this movement - we hope you love these conversations as much as we do!
Big thanks to the team at Sawyer for seeing the vision and supporting the show, we couldn’t do this without you!
This week we are thrilled to have Gabaccia Moreno joining us for a conversation about all the things - People Over Profit (inspired by our panel at Outdoor Retailer), doing life and business differently, paying people what they’re worth, the Outdoorist Oath, and so much more! We recorded this episode together in the van in a parking lot in Salt Lake City - one of our first in-person interviews in awhile - and the joy we're sharing is palpable. Settle in for a great chat that will leave your cheeks hurting from smiling so hard, and inspired by the possibilities of business and life done differently.
ABOUT OUR GUEST:
Gabaccia Moreno is a first-generation Mexican-American multimedia storyteller, consultant, and passionate outdoor advocate. She holds a B.A. in Theater and Anthropology from SUNY College at Buffalo and an M.A. in Performance Studies from New York University. Growing up visiting the Maya forest gave her an appreciation for the land and its wildlife at an early age. , one that prevails today. Her works, whether artistic, creative, or entrepreneurial, have always intersected with the social and environmental issues that surround her.
She currently serves as the Executive Director of The Outdoorist Oath, an organization creating educational tools and models to help and encourage people to become allies for planet, inclusion, and adventure. She’s the Director of Social Responsibility on the board of Hiking My Feelings and sits on the Joshua Tree National Park Association Diversity Council.
Gabaccia has also served as National Monuments Fellow (via The Wyss Foundation) at Nuestra Tierra Conservation Project, where she worked on initiatives to ensure historically and deliberately excluded communities have access to the process of protecting our lands and waters. Other credits include contributions to Backpacker Magazine, hosting her own Live conversation series named Exploring Responsibly and Explorando Responsablemente on Instagram, and being the 2021 resident host for the She Explores Podcast. In her free time, you’ll find her writing, advising businesses and nonprofits, or adventuring outside, probably taking photos, fishing, backpacking, hiking, practicing yoga, or conspiring with friends to make the outdoors more welcoming for all.
IN THIS EPISODE:
We catch up with Gabaccia and take a walk down memory lane, recounting how we originally connected and how life has brought us full-circle
Doing Business Differently: How the Outdoorist Oath is spreading the wealth, extending opportunities to the community
“You can’t put a price on the work we do” (at the Outdoorist Oath and Hiking My Feelings)
Doing Life Differently: honoring the call of the great outdoors and downsizing to maximize living life on our own terms, not merely exchanging our time for money to help pay a landlord’s mortgage
Sponsors Who Walk the Walk: Why we’re stoked to work with Sawyer
And more!
LISTEN HERE:
SHOW SPONSORED BY:
SHOW TRANSCRIPT:
Please note, we use Otter.ai to transcribe episodes and while the technology is impressive, it’s not completely accurate. Please excuse any missed words, nonsensical sentences, and missed interpretations of foreign language below:
Announcer 00:04
Welcome to Wellness in the Wilderness. Come with us on the trail of life as we inspire you to take a step outdoors to disconnect from the distractions and reconnect with yourself. Sydney Williams and her guests will motivate you to get active and get well. Now, here's Sydney.
Sydney Williams 00:25
All right, welcome to Wellness in the Wilderness. I'm your host Sydney Williams, author and founder of Hiking My Feelings today I am recording in Salt Lake City, which is the ancestral lands of the Shoshone, Paiute, Goshute and Ute Native American Tribes and we're sitting in front of the Comfort Inn here in Salt Lake. We're getting ready for morning two of Outdoor Retailer I'm here with Gabbacia. This little mini season is in conversation with five women who have been instrumental forces for Hiking My Feelings in the first five years of our existence. And we're sitting out here in front of a hotel like first of all, like shout out to Sawyer for putting this up shout out for Sawyer for sponsoring the podcast. We're here because of them. We had an awesome time moderating a panel yesterday, but we're sitting outside of the Comfort Inn. And because the rooms who were in our like the floor was vibrating in my room. And so we're like, oh, well go in the van. You know, it's kind of like soundproofed a little bit with our cork ceilings and then whatever you call it,
Gabaccia 01:21
of course. Put on the spot. But there is a large group of
Sydney Williams 01:30
She called it a Boomer Bus.
Gabaccia 01:39
We're like we're tourists thing here and the boomer bus as
Sydney Williams 01:44
I got, I was like ready to go. I took my deep breath. I got like I started the intro that I hear beep beep for like an hour. So here we are. Today we're chatting with Gabbacia Moreno she is on the board of directors here at Hiking My Feelings as our Director of Social Responsibility. She's also the executive director of the Outdoorist Oath among so many other things. Gabbacia is a multi, multidisciplinary creator and creative. She's also a consultant. She fly fishes, she hunts she hikes she backpacks she chases wildflowers. I'm remembering your bio from memory yesterday's. That's how I roll. So Gabbacia Welcome to Ruby the van.
Gabaccia 02:21
Thank you. Yes, this is exactly how I pictured this to happen. I would not have any other way. I know. This is the Hiking My Feelings studio headquarters. And it's just an honor to be here.
Sydney Williams 02:34
I love it. And shout out to Gail Straub because the only other interview I've actually done in the van with another person Shut up was with Gail when 2019 When our tour went through, went through Boston. We met up for a hike. And then we did a little podcast recording in the parking lot. So what a treat. Yeah. And she's on this season. So thank you, Gail. Thank you, Gabbacia. And actually, that's a good point. Isn't that how we connected was you heard about us? There are about me through She Explores?
Gabaccia 03:04
Yes, yes. I've seen it. Yes. Yeah. Oh my gosh, this is so bittersweet because it this was what six years ago, five, five years ago, five years ago. There was an episode of She Explores, and you were in it. And I was like, Whoa, this is so cool. And then I remember I tuned into one of your Instagram lives before you did the REI tour. And you were talking about this tour and you told your story of the trans Catalina trail. And I was like, Whoa, I need to see if we connect because I knew I was gonna be on the road that summer. And when I saw that you were gonna be in Kalispell. I just hit you up. I was like, hey, I want meet for coffee.
Sydney Williams 03:50
Oh my gosh. And I'm so excited because Barry and I are going up to Kalispell later this summer for the Highlander adventure in Kalispell, September 19 to the 23rd. So I think we're just missing you. Yeah, I am very much looking forward to because we went to coffee and whitefish right like
Gabaccia 04:06
in Kalispell, Doncaster, Culture Coffee. Shout out that. Yeah, that marshmello that fresh, like homemade marshmallow and the latte or something. It was me.
Sydney Williams 04:18
I'm just like, can we talk about all the full circle moments that have happened this weekend as it pertains to this journey, like, so we're like, we're connected like, we're doing this thing. The only other person I've interviewed like to hear is Gale from She Explores. So that is our tie. That's how we connected we're talking about we're going to both be in Kalispell at different points during the summer. We got gifted free marshmallows yesterday.
Gabaccia 04:40
Oh my goodness.
Sydney Williams 04:41
It's like it's so I totally forgot about the marshmallow and the coffee there. And that was like, Oh my God. It's like little nudges from the universe like, Oh, look at your friendship. It's like marshmallows. Or here's now a full bag of marshmallows. You start it started with one marshmallow in your latte. Here's our full bag of marshmallows for each of you. Yeah, it's fun. Okay, so um, for everybody that doesn't know, I recently joined the team as a facilitator for the Outdoorist Oath, an opportunity that was offered, well earned, but offered by the Outdoorist Oath to bring in some more facilitators to expand their reach and their work and do more of the epic things talk, walk us through this journey, like you are crushing. And you guys are raising so much money, you're doing so much good. You have these incredible workshops tell like, how did you get into this? Because like this founder team is insane. Let's start there.
Gabaccia 05:32
Let's start there. Yes. And I will just say like, we're raising money, but I wouldn't say much money yet. Because I mean, I, you know, like, I'll just start there, because that comes with a lot of privilege, right? Like we, the Outdoorist Oath was co founded by legends, Teresa Baker, Jose Gonzalez, and Pattiegonia. And with that, we were very lucky to have corporate support from not Day Zero and not day one. But maybe day 90 days in or something which is still huge for as far as new young nonprofits go. And so with that, we were able to put together a small part time team that does the day to day. And what the Outdoorist Oath does is we like to explain it into parts. So on the one and is this platform, which is the nonprofit write the kind of the structure that supports the work that we do. And through that structure, we support programming experiences, webinars, talks, panels in person online, that support people taking action for Planet inclusion and adventure. And then on the other side, the Outdoorist Oath is an oath, right? So it's an action based promise that we make as a collective, to take action for Planet inclusion and adventure. And the way that we do that is, as you know, Sydney, we have a name, same namesake workshop, which is the outdoors oath workshop, where we guide people through a set of tools and frameworks that support them in that journey of taking action. And then of course, we all recite the beautiful Outdoorist Oath and commit and commit to taking action and commit to having fun while we're doing it. Dammit.
Sydney Williams 07:30
Good trouble is what we're making. Yes. Oh, man, I just like and I also want to reflect something back to you because you're like, No, no, like, we haven't been raising that much money. And we like got support on like, day 90 Also, like, about damn time. You know what I mean? Right? Like, about damn time. Absolutely.
Gabaccia 07:48
And the and the like, and there's so much money part is because I think in nonprofit, we're so used to having to show up that we can do a lot with very little. But in reality, the work that we're doing the work that you're doing, at Hiking My Feelings is work that's so important. That has a lot of value. And that is not really cheap to do. Because the experiences. I mean, when you when you consider the experiences, the lives of everybody that comes into this work to create this programs, you cannot even put a price tag on that. Right? And so we're never gonna get paid enough to do this work. I'm gonna, I mean, in a world, I would like to think that we will. But if we manage to get paid in a way that's fair, right in a way that we can all retire comfortably, I will be satisfied. At minimum. That said, the value of this work is just beyond what money can can do and say, and with fundraising is really interesting. Because when you want to pay people what they're worth, the money goes fast,
Sydney Williams 09:09
boo. Isnt that the truth. Understatement of the century, yeah.
Gabaccia 09:15
And I still feel like we're under paying. Right and, and, and yeah, so we've we've been very lucky in different ways that we've been able to support people. Because we believe in the value of what they bring to the table.
Sydney Williams 09:29
And I gotta say, like, when I saw my experience with Outdoorist Oath, I was invited as a founding member, which like, first of all, the roster of people. I was like, I was on a zoom call with like Tommy Caldwell. And like, Alex's wife, Sunny, and I was just like, what is happening? Like, how am I getting locked in with like, iconic athletes in this industry?
Gabaccia 09:51
Because youre an iconic leader.
Sydney Williams 09:52
I'm gonna take that take that I'm gonna receive that. I'm gonna let this bus do what this bus does and rumble for us. Let's do it. Drumroll. Busroll. So thank you. I'll take that. So I was I was invited as I should have been, and as it's appropriate.
Gabaccia 10:08
totally.
Sydney Williams 10:09
But then when I, on the on the compensating people part. Last year, I was on tour with our friends band, I was pretending to be a tour manager for a little bit
Gabaccia 10:18
nice.
Sydney Williams 10:19
Yeah. I remember I was on the tour bus and I was like, give I was like a guest speaker. And when I was offered that spot, like the compensation for 10 minutes of my time, I was like, I have never felt so valued in any situation I've ever been in like, this is appropriate. Yes. And I was like, what kind of stories have I been telling myself about my worth, as it pertains to doing this work, if these people can recognize what my time's worth for 10 minutes, and they have the capacity to pay that as a new organization. Like, I was like, there is something different here. And I've there's something I feel like, there's this wave. In my mind, there's this like, new wave of nonprofit, and just in ways, general ways to do business, but I feel like with what you're doing at the Oath with what we're trying to do it Hiking My Feelings, like, I feel like there's it doesn't have to be this old guard of nonprofit being based out of like, really, really rich people being philanthropic, like there's a better way to do business. And I think that the way that you guys are approaching how you run the Oath and how you loop people in and give opportunities for other people to exist and be paid is. So it's more than just like, the oath is not just talking to talk, like by doing the oath, you're walking the walk, but like you take it a step further with the way that you care for the people in your circle. And it's like, it's, it's, it's just awesome. So yeah,
Gabaccia 11:45
I just I just don't see how I could do it any other way. You know, we we truly believe and I, and I'm gonna say I really think co founder of Pattiegonia for this framing, because she is always very upfront and loves the money talk. And she's always like, No, we, we need to pay people what they're worth, you know, like, I don't want people's nonprofit rates, right. I want their full rates. And the reality is, and we'll see these, we'll see proof of concept over the next few years, right? And like how, how much the people that are able to support this work, see that value and show up for that value? Because at least I know, personally, I cannot do this if I'm asking people to sacrifice their earning potential because this world is cutthroat. Right? And so that doesn't feel fair, especially as coming from spaces where I've been in that situation, right? Because I have a really hard time having a job that doesn't align with my values. And that doesn't feel like I'm having a positive impact in this world. And nothing against folks that do that. Because I know that, unfortunately, in this world, the opportunities are limited. And that's right. And that's, that's systemic. And that's like why we talk about the nonprofit industrial complex. It is an industry. And so really, we'll see, we'll see brands showing up and supporting us supporting people doing work for planet, inclusion and adventure. So we'll see like, we'll see if they talk the talk. Yeah, when they you know, instead of getting that big cut of profits are supporting the work that we're doing. Yeah,
Sydney Williams 13:35
well, and I think just kind of carrying over our conversation that we had yesterday during the Sawyer panel at Outdoor Retailer, we were talking about people over profits. And there's just there's so like, as I was facilitating this conversation yesterday, I was like, looking out at the audience. And I was like, I wonder who these people are, right? Like, who who from here is going to have some kind of seed planted by some story that one of you guys shared? And how is that going to change the world because they really like those. It just takes like the right language. And the reason that I say this is like the Outdoorist Oath, gave me the framework and gave me the language to go then execute the biggest dream I've ever had for Hiking My Feelings, which is our events in Sequoia like I knew I felt in my soul what I wanted that to look like, but I didn't know how to talk about it. Because I don't come from a background of conservation. I don't come from a nonprofit background. So I was like, what what are the words that I need to use? Because like, ultimately, that's all this ever comes down to is how we communicate ideas how we communicate value to your point. So as it pertains to the Outdoorist Oath and your work in general, you recently were like, I'm not going to have an extra job so I can pay rent. Let's talk about your lifestyle switch back to something that sounds like and appears to be way more fulfilling than what you were doing previously.
Gabaccia 14:55
Yeah, I think, Gosh, I've fallen in this cycle multiple times in my life where I get so caught up in the in like working and, and find some sort of financial stability. But I just haven't found that without having to work 12 hour days. And so the past year and a half to two years, oh gosh knows 2020 Okay, since 2020, I've been working nine to nine, let's just say. And so, at the end of last year, I, you know, I was feeling the burnout. And I was like, I need to make a change. And I need to make some choices in my life. And for and I think I was telling this to you yesterday, last year was the year I've made the most money in my life. And I have no idea where it is. Except I know, it's on rent and utilities, right? So it's like, wow, that just went, that just went and it's it was just, it did not feel like it did not feel fair to me to be paying for my landlord's mortgage, when I haven't even had the opportunity of saving up for downpayment on a plot of land right now. Because I don't even need a house. I just need land where I can put my camper. Thank you. And so well, we're on the lookout. I'll keep you posted. Yeah. And so Roberto, my husband and I decided, let's get back on the road. We have the camper now, you know, we I don't need to be overworked because I'm not going to be on the road and be overworked and work nine to nine on the road like heck no. You know, cutting, cutting expenses, cutting the income sure, and also create space to create our own thing. You know, because we are, we're very passionate about telling stories. And so that's kind of where we're at right now just started back in March of 2023. This year. For those listening in the future. For those in 2030, listening to this. And it's and I'll tell you I also something that I expected is like, oh, now I'm on the road. I'm free overnight, fulfilling life. And it has not been bad. Because it is, as I've gotten older, it is harder not to have running water and your own bathroom. Absolutely. These are real challenges, especially as a woman as a woman, women, I feel like it will relate to this.
Sydney Williams 17:44
I can't just pee anywhere. Yeah, Barry can go anywhere. He can pee in a bottle in the van. He can do whatever he wants. And I have to like find a place.
Gabaccia 17:50
Yeah, exactly. So that and so that a you know, like I'm already spoiled. I already have American people problems and rich people problems, because let's face it. There's so many people in the world that don't have running water. We're so spoiled. So I'm spoiled. So now I have to deal with that. And be I'm burned out. And I have not had time to process this shit. So the first month and a half. It was a real struggle. And it's it's all sorts of things right? Like so I went from like a three bedroom house. To how big is my camper? I don't know what it's like to
Sydney Williams 18:41
the living space is a truck bed, too. Yeah, with some height to it. So I mean, like imagine that.
Gabaccia 18:47
So six feet by however wide to fit, yeah, seven feet or whatever. Yeah, six by seven square foot or whatever. And I mean, adjusting to the space and figuring out where my things go. How do I organize my things in this smaller space again? I was like, Dang, this last time I did this. I was like 26. So this is, you know, this is almost 10 years later, and I'm like, wow, dang, it does get harder to be rugged. But now I'll say now I'm settling into it and already feeling better just from forcing myself to be out in nature. Because this is really how I see it is like I if I don't force myself to be there. I can be inside in a computer all day which I have proven to myself. Sure I was paying rent and it didn't help that climate change is real. And the worst wildfire in the history of New Mexico was happening in my backyard after I had just moved to that house. Right so my forests were closed. The reasons why I moved There are so I thought to begin with, right were burning, so couldn't go anywhere. And then, of course, I had two jobs and freelance work. So even if the forest would have been open, what time do I go, right. And by the time I have my one day off a week, I don't want to do anything. I don't want to go outside for a breath of fresh air, you know, I just want to be horizontal all day, and not think whatever. So it's. So you know, just keeping it real, like the change transition is difficult, but it's worth it. Over time. You settle into a rhythm, and you start seeing the benefits of not paying for someone else's mortgage. And starting to build your own freedom little by little.
Sydney Williams 20:49
Yeah, so I can totally relate to all of that. So I like we recently we've been off Catalina Island for almost a month now. And I everything you were saying, I'm just for those of you that aren't watching, because this isn't a video, I'm just over here like basically head banging in a van as Gabbacia's talking, because like I like when so we moved into, there's a couple things that I wanted to hit on, like we moved into the van in 2018. out of it was our choice, but it was also out of necessity, not necessity, like if we don't, we're homeless, or we have no other choice, but like the choice that we wanted to make for my health for this dream of what we're trying to build here. I looked at my bank account, I was like, if I keep paying rent, that money's gone in two, three months, if I leave that money goes for six or nine months, and even longer, and the strategy that I deployed, don't recommend it don't do this. I'm not a financial consultant. But I looked at I looked at what I had in the bank, and I was like, that's like almost a year of minimum payments on my, on my credit cards. If it came to that, like I could, and I did like we put all of 2019 on credit cards, I'm still paying those off, by the way, but like saying but it afforded this lifestyle. So like one I want to acknowledge that there are people that live like this because they have no other choice. So in in, in and of itself, there is some privilege with this lifestyle. And also, there is a distinct lack of privilege with this lifestyle for all the inconveniences and all the things that we mentioned. Like in the context of living in American life. We're giving up a lot of comforts to be here. But for what? For me it's for it's for like it is literally life or death. Yeah. And when we moved to Catalina i Same kind of thing. I was like, oh my god, I'm moving to the island that changed my life like the TCT is my backyard, two thirds of my rent has been paid. So this, this transition, I'm gonna like we're making more money than we've ever made it Hiking My Feelings, like basically combined, like all the years like, I was like, oh my god, we're gonna be making like fat cash, we're gonna be stationary, like, we're not gonna be spending money on gas. And I'm just like, doing the math in my head was like, we're gonna come out of here with like, tons of money. This is going to fund our summer. bullshit. I left there with less money than I had coming in. I bought a bunch of shit I didn't need. And it's like, and for what, like, I I am glad that I gave myself the opportunity to try that. But like, when you were talking about like coming back into your truck, and like where do your things go? When I unpacked and Catalina was like, How do I have so much shit. We have a van and a five by five storage unit. We don't have a lot of stuff. But like, it's like, My life just exploded into my closet. Like I made this little altar with all my crystals because like, I can't put crystals out right? They go everywhere. So I have like my crystals and like my picture of all my dead friends and like, you know, like I was just like, honoring. Yeah. And I created this space was like my little fort and my closet. And I was like, I thought like, I remember when I moved to San Diego. And I had like my big girl job and all this money. And I was like and I set up my little altar in my office in our house in South Park. And I was like, Oh my God, I've made it. And I thought when I got to Catalina and I could set up my altar again. I was like, this is like my thing where I feel like I've arrived. And I was like, it's so cluttered in here. I hate it like all these rocks look like a mess. And I was like what is happening? And then we got it back in the van and same kind of thing. The adjustment period, like the first day we were in the van way to get a new fuel pump. Oh, gosh. So I was like, oh shit, like, I forgot about the reality of like an unexpected $800 repair. I was like I did not, what? Like, oh my God, all the money we came here with it's going out the window so fast. But to that point and what like you were saying you were like, last year you made the most money you've ever made. You don't know where it went. But also, we've always had enough. Like, for me and Barry and this is something that we were saying yesterday, during the panel was like, I don't know, where like I genuinely don't understand where all that money goes. Like I look at the sheets at the end of the year for what Hiking My Feelings is raised and what we've spent on programming and I'm like, Where does it all go? Like I it's not like I'm getting paid that. So it's like it's kind of tying all the things together like the programming is not free or cheap to run. The experiences cost money the value is through the roof. This lifestyle affords us the opportunity to go do this in a way that feels good to us and feels good to you guys. But my God, like, there's so many ways to live a life. And what I'm realizing is none of it's easy.
Gabaccia 25:09
None of it's easy.
Sydney Williams 25:10
And the grass is green where you water it. Like, because I was like, and I never, I never thought when we left here to go to Catalina, I never thought that there was anything wrong with Hiking My Feelings or the way we were living. I was like, Oh, this is just the next natural evolution of our story. I'm glad I gave it a shot. But that's not true either. Like, I've never had a transition. And I'm curious about this for you, because you were you, you eliminated some of the work to have more time for life. I've never been in a career transition where I'm going back to something that I've already built. That was absolutely incredible. Because like I've always every career transition has been like, this is over. Now I'm moving forward, or this is over. Now I'm doing a pivot. And it's not like Hiking My Feelings didn't exist while we were on the island. I wrote my second book. Yeah. But we didn't execute the program. So it was like kind of feeling like it was like the baby on the backburner. But I've like the second that we stopped focusing on what wasn't working, paying our landlord's mortgage, contributing tons, like just so bringing so much to that business and seeing so little in return. I have always said, the second that I get more resources like imagine what we could do. We've done so much with so little. Imagine what we could do with more resources. When I had more resources, they all went away, like I'd never even actually had time to hold them and appreciate them. So for you, as you're thinking about what this year looks like, and what it looks like moving forward. Are you feeling good about the things that you've kept on your plate? Are you missing anything that you took off your plate now that you've kind of reduced your workload?
Gabaccia 26:45
Yeah, that's a really great, great question. And I'll say, my, my exit from the job that I decided to quit was not easy, because I shout out to the North South Yarra conservation project team, I have so much respect and, and so much heart for, for that team for all the growth that I did with them. And in a, you know, in a different life, that's a that's a different path that I would have completely fully taken. But I was also really lucky because my exit was in like, today's your last day forever by they see the value of what I bring to their team to the work that they do. And so I've been able to stay on a couple of contracts with them. So I was allowed the opportunity of close in a closing my my participation in the Castner Range National Monument campaign, which got literally designated, like, I don't know, two weeks after my last official day as a full time person. And so I've been able to go back to El Paso, Texas, and meet with my coalition and celebrate this 50 plus year old campaign to protect their local mountains and natural spaces. And so it's been just really beautiful to be able to have that transition in that way, and still be in relationship with these folks. And still pretty much collaborating and intersecting in different places. You know, like, last week, I was speaking at children and Nature Network Conference, and I'm helping, you know, the executive director was there and it was just like, wholemeal same old times. Yeah, we're still in the good old days. And yeah, so that's been really beautiful and a big privilege for me. And then the, obviously, I kept my role at the Outdoorist Oath, which is still pretty much part time work. And that that was, for me, the reason to just focus on this as a I've never before had the opportunity of building an organization or business from scratch my whole career, I've been helping people improve, fix and find solutions for their businesses that are already entangled. And so for me, this opportunity was like, Whoa, I get to apply everything I've learned and try to build like my dream or structure from day one. And so that and so that that I've known from day one, and that's been beautiful, but I was not. I mean, if I was doing a decent job stretched thin as I was last year, I thought, what can I do if I am rested?
Sydney Williams 29:38
Hmm, yes.
Gabaccia 29:40
That's 2.0 for me in my baby journey of being a quote unquote Executive Director for lack of better titles for things and people.
Sydney Williams 29:50
Well, and I, the thing I like about that too, is like, one of the things that you mentioned is that the Outdoorist Oath this part time work, and it's like it's part time work in enough framework and structure and understanding of like a 40 hour workweek, or how many hours actually work correct. But what I'm hearing is that you've got a really fulfilling job that is helping you meet your needs. Yeah, and possibly like, now that you've eliminated some of the expenses, get to a place where you are able to more accurately predict your financial future or have meaningful ways of spending versus giving it to a landlord. So it sounds like you're finding your balance and by being in the truck, and forcing yourself air quotes, forcing yourself outdoors, like it sounds like you're well on your way to finding your version of wellness in the wilderness again.
Gabaccia 30:39
I'm getting back to a baby.
Sydney Williams 30:42
So tell it talk to me about what you've got coming up this summer, because you're doing some epic stuff. Like you've got a trip with Sawyer, you've got some fly fishing stuff. Tell us all about it like you are a jet setter this summer.
Gabaccia 30:52
I am going, yeah. So I've had this opportunity through my ambassadorship with Sawyer, to visit the Marshall Islands here in a couple of weeks, to see firsthand as an ambassador, some of the humanitarian work that they do out there with providing clean water to the island. And so I'm just really excited. This is I mean, I, I don't know I've never been in an island in the middle of nowhere. As close as an island, as I've been is like Islas Marietas in Mexico, which is like, I don't know, a 10 minute boat ride to the mainland. So this is like, oh, gosh, where's the closest mainland.
Sydney Williams 31:38
And for people that don't know, because I didn't know where the Marshall Islands are. Tell me about how you have to get there. Because it is out there.
Gabaccia 31:44
It is out there. So pretty much I'll fly from Montana, all the way to Honolulu. And then an extra six hours, further down to the Micronesia region of the world where there's so many little islands. And the beautiful thing is that in the Marshall Islands, this area is full of what it's called atolls. And atolls are kind of like ring shaped islands. So they have like, Yes, I know. Like you have look it up a link to it link on the show notes to atoll. what the heck an atoll is, but it's just, it's beautiful. And I'm like, well, not only am I going to an island, but I'm going to this specific type of island that just has this like lagoon in the middle, you know, or like God, it's a ring. It's a ring of in the blue vast ocean. So that's coming up. And I'm really excited just to go and learn and connect with the local people and and you know, and continues to see like how I can show up for planet inclusion and adventure while I'm there. They have and the reason why I was brought up on this trip is because I'm an angler, like you mentioned earlier, and the Marshall Islands have the national fisherman's holiday or national fishing day or so it coincides that will be there through that celebration. So I'm just really excited because nothing you know, when you when you hear about other countries or areas of the world, and Marshall Islands has only been semi it's really bizarre. I mean, politically is really bizarre because it was owned by like Spain, Germany, now the US, but not really the US I think in the 90s they got kind of like their independence, but they're still part of it. But not like I say, I'm still trying to understand the whole political landscape of that, but but when you think of places overseas, that especially you know, we're doing clean water work, so Okay, these people need help. Sure. But these people, right, the Marshalese people have traditions, and culture and life and celebration, so what a joy to be there during a celebration. Right to to embrace it from that perspective, because at the end of the day, it is it is the joy that I think really grounds the work in a way that's sustainable. And in a way that we can approach each other through celebration in so we talk about asset based versus deficit based, right. So I'm not going because they don't have clean water. I'm going because they are amazing people that celebrate life despite everything else. Yes. And and that's also, you know, for us who live here with all the comforts that we have. It's just big lessons to learn.
Sydney Williams 34:52
Yeah, and great stuff to bring back. Like there's there's so I think like there's so much to be gained from something like that, and when I think about my experiences working with brands, whether that was in my function as somebody working in a PR agency or in like seeking ambassadors and seeking athletes to sponsor whether in like in skydiving now as somebody who has sponsors in the outdoor industry, I, I, I mean, I'm willing to be proven wrong, and I hope that I am. But I gotta say, I don't know anybody that's doing it better than Sawyer right now. And I'm not just saying that because they're sponsoring the podcast, like to bring an angler to an island to understand the work that they do outside of selling things, like the good that they're putting into the world. And to give you the experience of being able to enjoy that celebration. Yes. Like that. That goes so far beyond like, yes, the financial support is important, and we love it. Thank you. And also that kind of immersion experience, that is the real deal. I want that more than I want free stuff. I want that more than I want sponsorship dollars, honestly, to be able to connect with the cause so deeply. What a gift.
Gabaccia 36:03
I think it's incredible. I couldn't agree with you more. And when it comes to giving back. It's it's so funny, because I've you know, I don't know, I've been working with Saira for the past couple years. And I think that I was like, wow, y'all just so much, and brag so little?
Sydney Williams 36:23
Girl, I had no idea. I had no idea because like, here's, here's the difference too, for me. And I hope that you feel comfortable going here. I'll just do this solo if I need to. When I think about companies that that have a talking point about how much of their profits, they reinvest back into the industry. I'm calling the out REI 75% of your profits, you reinvest. First of all, why do you have profits as a Co Op? Yeah, so like, there's that but also like, where, where's that actually being invested in? How is that supporting the people that they are choosing to uplift? Like, I didn't know that Sawyer reinvest 90% of their profits, because they don't go around bragging about it. They just go do the work. And I also love and appreciate and admire and deeply respect the way that they're going about this. Like when Sean Capoff yesterday was talking about what the work he does with one at a time. He's like it, he was gringos don't touch the filters. Like, right, we go down and they have networks of people that they have worked with for years to ensure clean water. And it's the people that live there giving it to the people that need it, rather than us coming in with our capes in our flags as lifesavers. Yeah. And like, yeah, we're white. And yeah, we're facilitating this work, because the people that own the business are white in the people that are doing this are white. But we also don't have to center ourselves. And I think as far as, as far as like, actually walking the walk and talking the talk and doing it right. I have yet and I and like I said, I am willing to be proven wrong. And if there's another brand out here who's doing stuff like this, please let me know. So I can celebrate you as well. But I don't have all the brands that I've interacted with interacted with in this industry over the past few years and an every other brand that I've ever interacted with in my 15 year career and communications. I've never been so impressive and so honored and just grateful to be in the orbit of people that are doing business in this way. That's the future that I want to see for this industry. For Ambassador partnerships. Like I just there's so I love it so much. Like I'm just so impressed. And I it being here for Outdoor Retailer, and seeing everybody and being back in community. Like I didn't realize how isolated I had felt, until we were at Kenya and Michelle's thing yesterday for Outdoor Journal Tour. And I was like, I haven't been in a space that I didn't create, where I had felt so seen and heard. And we're in the middle of a trade show floor. We really were and I got up there. And I read a poem about like, I unlocked some core memories yesterday, but like all of which is to say like I just I, I'm grateful for the opportunity to be here because of Sawyer. And also, I didn't realize how much I had missed the in person, kinship and connection and community. Like I genuinely didn't realize how big that space was in my heart until I got filled up yesterday. And I was like, Oh man, like this feels like 2019. Right. Like, there's all this momentum, there's no there's nothing hanging over our heads. Like there's always stuff hanging over our heads, but not as not as urgently as it has over the past few years.
Gabaccia 39:15
I agree with you so much. And I think also what's very special about this particular ambassador program is that how beautiful that they're investing in us hanging out with the team hanging out with other ambassadors and like actually connecting Yeah, as like a team of people that have aligned values on a common goal, because you might have thought like I did, that Sawyer was in the business of selling water filters and not realizing that they're actually in not in the business but in the mission of bringing clean water to people that need it the most. And so when you have that realization, you're like, oh, shoot, okay. I this is like something else. Yeah, you know, and for all the ambassador programs that you can be a part of. This is just so, so unique and so special and heartwarming. And it really feels relationship based,
Sydney Williams 40:16
I felt included. And I haven't like, I didn't realize how not included, I've felt in a lot of ways over the past. Well, my whole life, like, you know, you feel like feel like a weirdo in the cafeteria when you're a kid. But like that feeling tends to carry through into some other situations, but like, and like, I'm a person that like I make myself like, I'll just insert myself into a community into a conversation. Like I'm a pretty personable person. I consider myself a social chameleon in some ways, like I can just be there and like figure it out. But like, I haven't felt so intentionally included in something. And I think what you just said about like the like the opportunity to demonstrate thought leadership for the people that were on that stage yesterday. Like just an like, because Andrew asked me to facilitate this conversation was like, cool, you got talking points, you got questions when we asked, he's like, no, like, we trust you to guide this conversation we trust, however, you're going to bring the story forth. And I was like, first of all, wow. Like, I love that I'm being considered somebody that can hang on this kind of conversation, like, feels good to me, like thank you for that reflection. But also, there was no ulterior motive yesterday, like there was no like, this is all about us. And make sure you hit these points, which like I've been asked to do before,
Gabaccia 41:31
we've definitely talked more about so you're right now today than yesterday. Yeah.
Sydney Williams 41:35
Yeah. But I mean, like, I can't help it. Like, I'm just so over. I'm just so enthused by, like, it gives me so much hope for the future, because we sat in on the panel yesterday about the future of brand partnerships and Ambassador relationships. And I was just thinking I was like, I mean, like they're already doing it, like everybody, like figure it out. Like it's being done, like the immersive experiences, the long term valuable relationships are happening. We just need to like look in the right direction. So as we start to think about what you've got going on this year, so you are, you're doing your Marshall Islands trip, and then you've got some stuff in Montana.
Gabaccia 42:17
Yeah. And then we'll spend some time in Montana, and join. This is my new tradition since 2021. I go up there with my colleagues, Bree and Serena, who, yes, who are fabulous. And they do what they call the Outcast Anglers campouts. And they have so many this year, which is epic, because they started with one and then two. And now there's like six, and I'm like, Whoa, y'all are doing this. And really what they're doing is creating space for people interested in fly fishing, that do not feel represented or welcome in most of the spaces that already exist. And so I've been going since the first one and 2021. And this is like my epic road trip of every summer where I get to go up north, and then hang out with friends, all the new, it's always been beautiful, because you don't know who's going to be there. But you know who's going to I mean, now I know who's going to be there that we've met over the years, or people that we've been, you know, just like following each other on Instagram and DMing for a while, or maybe we've just been on some zoom calls or phone calls. And we and we finally get to go fish IRL and so that I'm really just looking forward to being for those three days fishing with some amazing people connecting and kind of just like forest bathing. In the in the beautiful. Yeah, in the beautiful soul of so cold, Montana.
Sydney Williams 43:55
Yeah. Well, it sounds like you've built a life now. And you've done some tinkering over the years. But it sounds like you're moving in a direction that feels sustainable for the energy and the capacity you have to do work. It's meaningful. It's it's the right amount of time to spend on it versus spending all day inside on a computer. Yeah. You're really growing into this angular side of things like now you're instructing your it's not just a thing that you enjoy doing. Like you're sharing this with other people like, yeah, like you. I mean, you have a thing tonight, like you're teaching, you're teaching this stuff like about you. That's insane. That's so awesome.
Gabaccia 44:34
I know. Like, just three years ago, I was the student and now my teachers have passed the baton to me. So also shout out to Whitney Lang and Hilary Hutchinson because they both just sent this opportunity my way. They're like, Oh, yeah, River Development School. Gabbacia should teach that and I'm like, really? They're like, yes. Can you adapt? Do you know pretty much I'm adapting to curriculum that they've put together into like a more introductory session for new anglers. And now I you know, as as I've arrived at my own moment of being an independent angler and being able to just go out on my own and catch fish and and, and have my moments there and now I get to share what I've learned with others so they can do the same. Especially women you know, we are we have been excluded from so many spaces just on the basis of our identity. It is not untrue that in some states women were not allowed to fish alone or there's there's just a weird laws out there where like, I think as a woman you There couldn't like, Well, you were telling me about what women can jump on.
Sydney Williams 45:45
Women in Maine, there's still an archaic rule on the books that women cannot skydive on Sundays.
Gabaccia 45:51
Yeah, so as women, yeah. Well, there's, there's some things that we're not allowed to do. Because we shouldn't be out there on our own. So really define that narrative that's as old as time unfortunately, but or at least US old as colonizer times? I don't know. before. And, and yes, supporting, supporting other folks to to get out there and, and do this thing that I find. So healing, and so fulfilling. I mean, I had an It was weird, because I immediately got my imposter syndrome, because I was like, Oh my gosh, but I haven't like fished this year. And I want to teach about fishing, you know, and I was like, wait, wait, wait, wait. You're not fished this year, I cannot remember when I started fishing. Period, like I My earliest memories of childhood, I was already fishing like, I don't have a memory of my first time tying a hotdog to it to some line and throwing it in the river. I don't have that memory, right, because I've done it so much. Right. So yeah, you know, I'm like, that's that.
Sydney Williams 46:56
I think, I think that's a really, I think that's a beautiful point, and possibly like a really nice space to land and end this on it's like, we don't like you have lived your fishing experience. You didn't go to school to learn how to fish. You don't have names, like letters after your name, because you're such a great angler, like, this is you were born into it, you have been doing it your entire life. You can't separate the memories out of like, when you fish and when you didn't. And I think for anybody that's listening, like, I love that you brought up impostor syndrome, and that it's really hard to remind ourselves that we like being experts by experience is as valid if not more valid than being experts based on education.
Gabaccia 47:37
100%. Yeah. And, and I've had, you know, when it comes to fly fishing, I've had opportunities of being educated. Like I said, you know, I have teachers and yeah, I'm the teacher, but But I went fishing couple of days ago, and I got there. And I called fish. And I said, Oh, yeah, I didn't know how to do this. You know, and, and that's because it's already in my body. It's already my muscle memory. I know how to do this. Of course, that's why I've been trusted with this. Yeah, that's what I've been trusted with this. And while I just started fly fishing, really four years ago, or five, maybe? Oh, gosh, see, I already don't remember. It's just been what I've been. But it's not just that I started fly fishing. But I started and did it every weekend. Yeah, over the you know, because a lot of a lot of people fly fishing, they just do it for a season, like, Oh, I'll fly fish a couple of times in the summer. And that's what they and that's what they do. And that's cool. And then there's other folks that like, do it more. And when I got into it, I just knew that if I wanted to get good at it to where now I can take a six month break and then go and catch catch a fish. I you know, I was diligently training, I was training I was out there, but it but it's funny because I say training but really, I mean, it's, it's it's more of a practice, it's like a meditation because something about fly fishing this really beautiful is that if you're not present, you're not catching any fish. And even if you're present, you're not sometimes you're not going to catch fish because fish are smarter than you sometimes. And that's okay, that teaches you that keeps you in check. Right? They're difficult and that's fine because it makes you a better angler. When you don't. I feel like it makes you a way better angler when you don't catch any fish and when you do, but, you know, catching catching them as fun for sure and meeting them saying hi, I just want to say hi, that's my meet them. Hi, kiss bye. But you you really have to be present because it's all timing. And so that timing and that and that connection of like reading water understanding how this being this relative? Mm how this relative is existing In this ecosystem and on how, for me it's connection to my ancestors, to me is understanding that I'm able to provide for myself and my family if I need to. And so you have to be present. There's just no other way you can help provide for yourself out in the wild if you're not present. It's just the absolute truth. I mean, you can get lucky but very unlikely.
Sydney Williams 50:28
And with that is true for life. Like, the true for life. And I just want to like, I hope that you've never stopped fishing because when you were just explaining, like being in the water, like your voice slowed, like you became,
Gabaccia 50:43
I was there I was. There.
Sydney Williams 50:45
I was like, girl. She's got her like, angling stuff in her I don't even know it's rod? It's got her rod in her hand. She's like looking at the fish. She's reading the water like I was transported. So Gabbacia, thank you so much for joining me. Where can people get in touch? How can they get involved with what you've got going on?
Gabaccia 51:06
Yeah, so I'm better reached through the grams at Gabbacia. That's G A B A C C I A, but also please come check out the Outdoorist Oath. And we're Outdoorist Oath on Instagram Outdoors Oath everywhere and outdoorsistoath.org. And come take a workshop. And hopefully Sydney's facilitating
Sydney Williams 51:32
the student has become the teacher. Oh, man, I just I love you so much. Thank you for listening to She Explores. Thank you for reaching out and inviting me to coffee in Kalispell, Montana. Thank you for saying yes when I didn't know what a board member extra board member would look like. Thank you for all the contributions and introductions you've made. I just I wouldn't be here without you. And I just love you so much. Alright, see you later. Next time whenever that is all right.
Gabaccia 52:07
Ciao.
Announcer 52:08
Sawyer is more than an outdoor company. Every solar product you buy, contributes to our common humanity, bringing Sawyer water filtration systems to people in need all around the world. In just 2022 alone. 260,000 households in over 45 countries received clean drinking water through Sawyer filters. Over the past 10 years, we've teamed up with over 140 charities in 80 countries to provide long term sustainable relief domestically, internationally and in disaster situations. Together, we're saving millions of lives. Thank you. Ready to find your wellness in the wilderness will look no further than Hiking My Feelings through a combination of community and self discovery. Our programs are designed to give you the space and support to connect life starts. If you're looking to figure out who you are underneath the stories you've been given, and are ready to redesign the map of where you're headed with actionable steps and opportunities to dream big. We're here to walk alongside you. Whether you're a seasoned adventure enthusiast, or brand new to the healing power of nature. We've got your back. Visit hikingmyfeelings.org today to download our free trail thoughts worksheets, and learn more about Hiking My Feelings. Thanks for joining us on this week's show. We hope this episode has been a breath of fresh air for you and has inspired you to find your wellness in the wilderness. We will reconnect with nature and new again next week.
