#5Women5Years: Becoming Legendary with Liz Thomas
Season Two of Wellness in the Wilderness is here and we’ve got an epic mini-season in store for you!
In May, we celebrated five years since we started Hiking My Feelings, and as we were outlining the different guests we wanted to have on upcoming episodes of Wellness in the Wilderness, I noticed a pattern. There are so many incredible humans who have been a big part of our journey - whether that’s helping us get the word out and affirming the work we do, making life-changing introductions, inspiring new adventures and campaigns, or helping us bring our programs to life. Now, we’re excited to share the first of five conversations with five women who have been a huge influence on the first five years of this movement - we hope you love these conversations as much as we do!
Big thanks to the team at Sawyer for seeing the vision and supporting the show, we couldn’t do this without you!
This week we are thrilled to have Liz “Snorkel” Thomas joining us for a conversation about, well, all the things - manifesting your dream life, accomplishing huge goals, failure, teamwork, knowing your weaknesses, finding joy in the wilderness - this chat really does have something to inspire anyone and everyone. I supposed at the end of the day, this is a chat with a legendary human about her legendary hiking career, and all the traits that helps one become legendary.
ABOUT OUR GUEST:
Liz Thomas is a professional hiker, speaker, and outdoor writer who held the women’s self-supported speed record on the 2,181-mile long Appalachian Trail from 2011-2015. Called a "thru-hiking legend" by Outside Magazine, Liz has hiked 20+ other long distance trails including the Triple Crown of Hiking (Appalachian Trail, Pacific Crest Trail, and Continental Divide Trail) and first known traverses of the Wasatch Range and Chinook Trail.
Her innovative urban thru-hikes of 14 cities led The Guardian to call her “The Queen of Urban Hiking.” Liz is a former staff writer for the New York Times/Wirecutter and current Editor-in- Chief for the outdoor webmagazine Treeline Review as well as Backpacker Magazine contributing editor and columnist of “Ask a Thru-hiker.” She's the author of Long Trails: Mastering the Art of the Thru-hike, which received the National Outdoor Book Award for Best Instructional book with judges calling it destined to become the “Bible of the Sport.”
Liz has talked hiking and gear on Good Morning America (TV), in The Wall Street Journal, The Guardian, Buzzfeed, The Washington Post, Men’s Journal, Women’s Health, Gizmodo, and Outside Magazine. She represented the sport of hiking at President Obama’s Great American Outdoors Initiative. Liz’s keynote speaking engagements have included colleges and universities including Yale and MIT, the Trust for Public Land National Leaders Conference, American Hiking Society, and on Capitol Hill.
Learn more at www.eathomas.com or @lizthomashiking or Treeline Review.
IN THIS EPISODE:
We reconnect with Liz, who we originally connected with in 2020 during an episode of the Virtual Campfire podcast
Did Liz plan to be this epic or did this just happen? (Spoiler alert, she’s a goal-setter and a go-getter!)
The art of letting go, knowing your weaknesses, and asking for help
The magic of the trail - like losing a bite valve on a thru-hike and finding a new one on the side of the trail 10 miles later
Bringing those backcountry lessons to your front-country life
What is failure and how do we move through it?
How urban hiking changed the game for Liz
AND SO MUCH MORE
SHOW TRANSCRIPT:
Please note, we use Otter.ai to transcribe episodes and while the technology is impressive, it’s not completely accurate. Please excuse any missed words, nonsensical sentences, and missed interpretations of foreign language below:
Announcer 00:04
Welcome to Wellness in the Wilderness. Come with us on the trail of life as we inspire you to take a step outdoors to disconnect from the distractions and reconnect with yourself. Sydney Williams in our guests will motivate you to get active and get well. Now, here's Sydney
Sydney Williams 00:25
Welcome to Wellness in the Wilderness. I'm your host Sydney Williams, author and founder of Hiking My Feelings and today I am broadcasting live from Lafayette, California, the ancestral lands of the Miwok, Bay Miwok, Yocha and Muwekma Ohlone People in this mini season sponsored by Sawyer Products are celebrating five years of Hiking My Feelings by sharing conversations with five women who have been incredibly inspirational or somehow instrumental in this journey so far. My guest today is Liz Thomas, who is a professional hiker, adventure conservationists and outdoor writer who broke the women's self supported speed record on the 2181 mile long Appalachian Trail. considered among the most experienced hikers in the US she's known for backpacking, fast, light and solo. Liz has hiked more than 20,000 miles on 20 Plus long trails, including completing the triple crown of long distance hiking, which includes the Appalachian Pacific Crest and Continental Divide trails, and first known traverses of the Chinook trail in the Columbia River Gorge and the Wasatch Range and Utah. Her book long trails mastering the art of the thru hike is the winner of the National Outdoor Book Award for best instructional book. And honestly, I could fill this entire episode giving you tidbits of things I've heard about Liz stories, Liz has told me things I find inspirational about this woman, but then that would kind of defeat the purpose of having a conversation. So in the spirit of keeping this mile long list of accomplishments to a digestible short few sentences. Let's go ahead and welcome Liz to the show. Liz. Hi.
Liz Thomas 01:58
Thank you so much for having me on Sydney.
Sydney Williams 02:01
It's so great to have you back. And guys, we are keeping it real here. We've got lives, we've got birds, we've got outdoor sounds, we are finding our wellness in the wilderness as we go. So I just want to take a few seconds before we jump right in and just let people hear the beauty that surrounds you. So here we go. All right. Hey, bird friends. So Liz, are you ready to have a great day? How are you doing?
Liz Thomas 02:34
I'm doing great. I just got back from Scotland. Two days ago, I was on a thru hike there. And I'm feeling re-energized. I'm just super excited to be home, but also so grateful for the time I had on my trip.
Sydney Williams 02:48
Oh, I love that. And I hope we can get into Scotland here in a little bit. I think before we jump in the stuff. So we had Liz on the Virtual Campfire podcast. Back in the day, she was actually on the first episode that aired after we brought it back. And we were talking about poop stories with Taylor and Thor from Do Good Shit. And now we're here to talk about wellness in the wilderness and take a little bit of a different spin on this conversation with Liz and understand a bit about what makes you you how you got into everything that you've done, and how this is just all unfolding for you. And so I think where I'd love to start, in the spirit of this being five years and five conversations with iconic and incredible folks like yourself, when I think back on Hiking My Feelings, um, I've always had a vision and I have a very distinct memory of the vision expressing itself, which was like big, huge poster size, post it notes on a wall. And just like I want to do a book, and I want to go on tour. And I hope there's a documentary or movie made about this life someday. And I never knew in that moment, like I didn't know how it was gonna get done. I didn't know you like I didn't know who would help us along the way in the pursuit of this vision. But I trusted that those things would show up when I was clear on the what like what is Hiking My Feelings and why do I care about it? The trust of how and who just kind of has always followed. So when I think about your long list of achievements, and even going back before you did everything that you've now done all the notches on your belt all the experience 20,000 plus miles hiked around the world now. Was any of this on your radar as a possibility like did you set forth with some grand vision and just start ticking the boxes are like how did this unfold for you this life you're living?
Liz Thomas 04:56
That's a great question. Sydney. Um, you know, I think especially when I was growing hang up, I felt like I didn't have a lot of like role model to doing this sort of thing because like, who was like thru hiking is kind of like it's been happening for a while, but it's also kind of a newer thing. So, as soon as I first found out about the long trails, I was like, that's something I want to do. And I, I didn't use the giant post it notes, I used like, note cards, but I set out like, hey, I want to finish the Triple Crown by the time I'm 25. I want to be an editor for Backpacker Magazine, I want to write a book and it was very much so the similar thing. And I, it's funny because I still have all of those old note cards. And when I wrote them down, I was like, I don't have any, how is this going to happen? And then now when I look at the ones from like, 2012, or something, I'm like, Ah, I guess I did that. So I think manifesting those sorts of dreams and goals really early on, even when they seem very pie in the sky was was essential to getting to where I am.
Sydney Williams 06:00
It's, it's really refreshing to hear you say that because in my mind, like, I've romanticize this journey for myself, but also like, I think as a society, we look at people that have achieved some kind of success. And it varies by industry and age and time of existence in the spectrum of history. But I think like as a society, we like latch on to this person has achieved this thing that we've deemed to be successful. And then we like dissect the path that that person took without ever really considering whether or not that path would be accurate for us. You mentioned that there wasn't like thru hiking has been happening, but it hasn't really been at the forefront of conversation and there isn't a whole there wasn't a lot of representation as it were. So what what helps you get from, I've got these ideas, I wrote them down, I love that you still have your note cards. And that makes me so happy. Because I have my little like, post-its, it's like rolled up in storage, because someday when I'm famous people will give a shit and they'll pay big money for it anyway. Like, what what helps you get from writing it down to these big long lists and like feel free to pick like a thing and kind of walk us through that journey. Because I think that there's, there's, there's the the seeing and the witnessing of the celebration of the accomplishment, but there's never really like a full exposure or conversation or understanding of the steps it took to get there. So I'd love to hear how you broke down some of those things into more manageable steps that ultimately led to these like incredible experiences and accomplishments.
Liz Thomas 07:42
Yeah, I think you know, one of the really good examples that I think about all the time is the project that I've been working on right now, which is Treeline Review, it's an outdoor gear review website for everyone. One of our goals is I really wanted to create an outdoor gear review site that had representation that had writers where people of color LGBTQ, the sort of outdoor gear experts that I wasn't seeing and mainstream outdoor media. And you know, it's a sort of thing where like, I had this vision, and I didn't really know how to get there. And so part of that was a lot of research, talking to people getting opinions and also knowing what my own weaknesses were so I'm not I'm not like a an accounting kind of person. I'm not a bookkeeper. So really reaching out and partnering with people who had that those skill sets that were not my forte.
Sydney Williams 08:36
that that almost feels like an offensive answer. Liz, if I'm being honest, because I'm over here, I'm like, I'm doing the most somewhere and every, like I, I am. As I hear you say this, I'm recognizing that I am aware of my weaknesses, but I also have this like, borderline sadistic need to prove to myself that I can do it not I have no desire to crunch numbers. I do not like doing accounting. But there's like there's some part of me that's like, Well, you better know every aspect of your business. Otherwise, are you really running it? Is it really yours? And like, I just I admire you for just knowing your weaknesses and tell me what it's like to not have to prove to yourself that you can do every role of business. I have a feeling a sneaking suspicion that that's why Treeline is as successful as it is because you have pulled in so many incredible partners to help you along the way.
Liz Thomas 09:36
Yeah, I mean, there's definitely an Art of Letting Go. And also interesting people knowing that, you know, like, I could figure it out. But if I trust people, if I work with them, I'm going to build something that's a lot stronger. And it's the same sort of thing with like, like setting these big goals for backpacking too, if I'm willing to. I don't have to look up the what time every post office is. Open in every trail town to get my resupply package, chances are someone's already done that. So really like trusting the universe that that the right people will be able to help where I need it.
Sydney Williams 10:10
Isn't that beautiful? And have you found, like, has that always been an innate quality that you have? Or is that something that as you spent more time in nature were in the best wilderness spaces and the best, the most well manage protected spaces like everything is working together. Like because for me, I have come to realize through spending time outside that in fact, when it's a single species, that's been like an a, like, if they've like, done like a clear cut, and they're like, we're only going to put one kind of tree in here. Like those trees look sad, because they don't have all their friends. So like, Tell me about that. Is this something you've always had? Or did this come out more expressed through your time and nature?
Liz Thomas 10:57
Yeah, I definitely think nature helped. I think, you know, when I first started hiking, I was the type of person who would like have every spreadsheet and every sort of worst case scenario picked out. And the longer that I hiked, the more I realized, you know, hey, if I'm flexible, if things get weird, it'll still end up working out. You know, on on a long trail, we can talk about how the trail provides, and it's uncanny how many times I've like lost a bite valve to my platypus. And then like 10 miles later, find a new one. And we're like, what is going on? So there's some sort of like magical, something that like, wants me to succeed.
Sydney Williams 11:39
I love that. And I think that it's a cool opportunity to bring to marry all the things that we're learning, like for what, the thing that comes to mind, as I hear you describe the trail providing and just kind of like, I guess, surrendering to the magic that is the outdoors and in the specific case of long distance hiking, trail magic. But the thing that I think of is like, how, at one point, I found myself in a forest, and I was like, I know, I'm not the first person to have this thought, but I was like, you know, what's cool about being out here? These trees don't give a shit what the other trees look like, like, we're not out here talking shit about that one's trunk, or that one's branches or the color of the leaves. Like, I'm just appreciating. And I think that when we find those moments, whether it's like not judging our bodies, because trees don't judge each other, or surrendering to this magical bite valve that just happens to show up at the exact right time. I think that there's something really beautiful to be said for the capacity to A have that awareness to be able to articulate it because like, we can feel these things, but like to find the words that mirror the experience, but also to like, take that off the trail and into life out here in the front country. Have you found that that? Have you found that to be true for yourself? And are there is are there any specific stories where you're like, oh, I can see how this skill that I've acquired outside is now translating to something like running Treeline?
Liz Thomas 13:13
Oh, yeah, definitely. My hiking partner long distance hiking partner turns business partner, Naomi, who did who is also the co founder at treeline review, and is much better at numbers. And I you know, we talk a lot about how there's no way we could do this had we not been through hikers, through hiking, being outside has forced us to be flexible has forced us to be creative in all sorts of ways. I think, you know, as far as bringing things in from the trail into the front country, one of the things I think a lot about is is is you know, after going on my first long distance hike, like many thru hikers, I went through sort of a phase of post hike blues, some people call it post hike depression, though, I prefer to use blues since depression is a serious mental health challenge. But I think, you know, one of the things that has really helped me the more hikes I do I address that is is how can I bring those ideas from a long distance hike into my day to day?
Sydney Williams 14:20
I love that. And I mean, obviously, clearly, I relate. I went on a five day hike across an island, I turned my entire life and the lessons I've learned so I get that deeply. From a newbie perspective, if there's anybody out there that's listening that's coming into this from a different angle. Maybe they have, maybe we're not trying to convince them that long distances for them. Maybe they've already done one for anybody that's out there that may be experiencing post trail blues, because, you know, last year they did the PCT and now they're seeing all the people posting about it, whatever it is. Do you have any recommendations for how to go about not only finding those lessons because that I mean, like self reflection is not easy. A lot of us run from our feelings and the opportunity to reflect and integrate. Do you have any tips for like how to extract a lesson? And then bring it into your daily life?
Liz Thomas 15:19
Yeah, I think you know, one of the things you were talking about beauty and how trees don't judge how we look. And I think that's a really great example of one of the lessons were like coming back to the front country, just taking the time to be like, trees don't care. And when I was out there, I was so happy because I wasn't and I wasn't bathing at all, and I wasn't never brushing my hair. I think that's a really key example. I think, also, you know, when we're on trail, it's so easy to be open and build community. And so that's a reminder that like, hey, when I'm in the front country, maybe I need to take some extra effort to, to build a community around me because that was something that really made me feel alive on trail. I think the same can be said for moving our bodies in any ways that we can, some of the things that just kind of inherently happen on that thru hike. Turns out, like the way we built our society, and our infrastructure doesn't automatically set us up for those sorts of things that can make us feel happier. So just being mindful of that as we're going about our daily life.
Sydney Williams 16:21
I, Yes, so true. Oh, my God, I was like, I have nothing to add. That's a period and I affirm an echo. So one of the other folks that I interviewed for this season is Gail Straub from She Explores, and before my interview with her, she had shared this article with me that Rachel Cargal recently posted. And she was talking about how we've turned forever, air quotes into the only acceptable definition of success. And it got me thinking about my journey with Hikking My Feelings and how our dream has morphed and changed one, as a result of a global pandemic, like we were getting people outside and getting them off their devices. And then we had to do a complete 180 and figure out how to make our programming accessible online. But it's just it's morphed and changed from outside forces from inside forces, like I have dropped things that I started doing and started doing things that I hadn't done yet just as a function of living and breathing life into this dream and into myself, as it were, in terms of backpacking and hiking, no trail goes on forever, like the Appalachian is 2181. Pacific Crest Trail, it's got a start and an end. But there is one trail that goes on until it ends completely. And that's like our trail of life. So I'd love to talk about like, what do you think about forever, as this only metric of success? Like Have there been failed air quotes, failed successes along your journey that you've had in this lifetime?
Liz Thomas 17:59
Yeah, definitely. And, you know, I read that Rachel Cargal post as well, and was, you know, really, it gave me a lot of things to think about in terms of failed success. And you know, one thing that came to mind that was actually kind of painful, but the post helped me, I'm still like working through it is kind of my relationship with FKTs, fastest known times. I, as you mentioned, in the bio, I had the fastest known time for the Appalachian Trail. And I had several other attempts at fastest known times, including a John Muir Trail, fastest known time that I thought I had broke and then realized maybe four months later that I broke the self supported record, not the unsupported record. And I was like, Oh, my gosh, I take a two hour nap. And I kind of had this right. And it really, like kind of made me think about all of these like, like, what, why am I doing this? And I think in the end, you know, I got to this point where I realized like, I don't need this external validation. I don't need to compete with others to feel like my time out there is awesome and valid, and I'm an awesome and valid person. And so you know, people are still like, Hey, what's your next fkt? And you know, like, I think to them, it probably looks like that. That was a failed a failure to not keep doing fkt's. But to me, I feel like it was like an evolution of like, I got what I needed out of this search for fkt's.
Sydney Williams 19:29
Oh, all right. I like where this is going. Okay, so failed success is on my end things that I think about, um, I think in some ways, my life is a failed success. You know, like, I'm still here, but there's, there's so much that like, I mean, I like truly I think if I if I was in a different mindset, and if I lived my life in a different way, and I reflected on all the stops along the way, everything that doesn't currently exist would be technically a failure. And that doesn't feel good to me. And I don't think that I'm like, over indexing on positivity here. But like an example for me, top of mind is moving to Catalina and moving off Catalina, like, I thought, this is the best ending to the story that I've already written that I've been living, which is my first book. And if we're talking about like, the prettiest bow on that, that particular story and mind you like, my experience with hiking is like one section of my life. It's the most forward public facing section of my life, but there's a lot of things I care about outside of hiking. And so for me, I was like, oh my god, I'm gonna move to Catalina. This is like the best ending to this story. And then I got there and I wasn't happy. And it took me like five months to understand my unhappiness and to stop rationalizing that this was the dream. So why am I not happy? Like it took me waking up one day and mid April and Barry was like, hey, so um, you've been waking up crying more than you've woken up happy. Like we should, we should think about this and maybe make some different decisions. And it wasn't until I had him say that to me where I was like, oh, and I snapped out of it. Now. I think now I know, I don't even have to say I think I know one of the reasons that I was so resistant to admitting that I wasn't happy was like, I moved my whole life to that island. What are people going to think? Am I an irresponsible business person? Like, did I make a bad decision? Did I not know enough to do this? Like, am I? Am I throwing away the best opportunity ever? Because it's not working out the way I thought it should? Like, is it actually better? No, it's not. Okay, great. And it was just a lot of questioning and a lot of, frankly, like, a lot of concern of what other people would think and like, why does that matter? Because I am clearly physically unhappy? Have there been any instances like that? Like, is any of that relatable to you, as it pertains to for the sake of keeping with the example of fkt's? Was there ever a part of that where you were like, Oh, my God, what are people gonna think if I don't make this? Or is that just not part of your process when you were in pursuit of those?
Liz Thomas 22:20
Yeah, I think you know, with my my first fkt on the Appalachian Trail, I wasn't actually that concerned about what other people were thinking, I feel like like the drive to do that one came from like, this deep spot in my heart. And that was what was driving me and because I had already hiked the Appalachian Trail before getting to see it again, with new eyes, I was always excited about what was around the next turn. And, you know, with my other fkt attempts, it didn't feel that way. It felt much more like numbers based, which as we already talked about, not my favorite thing. It felt much more like I was doing it for this show for this audience. And I think, you know, that really taught me something about like, hey, you know, if it's coming from my heart, and that's what's driving me. And that's usually a really good indicator that this is on the right track, even if it's something that's like, really pie in the sky.
Sydney Williams 23:13
I love that. And I think I also would just like to acknowledge both of us for being total badasses and going for it when we don't know how or who it's going to happen. Because they're, like, I take this part of me for granted. And I don't know if you can relate to this. But like, I assume that everybody is aware of the dream that they have, and is working towards it. Apparently, that's not true. Like, apparently it takes a ridiculous amount of courage and bravery and self awareness. And sometimes just in my case, with my first attempt at the trans Catalina trail, delusional confidence that I could Is that Is that true for you too? Or am I am I like, Am I missing the mark here? Because like, I, I assume that and I, to the point where it's like, it's harmed relationships for me, where I just assume like I see the best in you. I like I hear you say what you want. But then you're not going and doing anything about it. Like, what is it? Is there something like Were you born with this trait? Are we born with this trait? Do we learn how to go do this? Like what what separates people that have big, audacious dreams who don't know how we're they're going to get there who's going to help make it possible? What separates those of us that think this way and live this way? From folks that don't and not like, I'm not trying to make this a positionality thing? Like we're better because but like, what are some of these things that make make it so that we can just go with nothing but delusional confidence and like, go attempt something so huge?
Liz Thomas 24:52
I love that term delusional confidence, because when I look back on some of my early decisions that I made that have led me to this path, I'm like, Well, I didn't what? I moved across the country and didn't have anything lined up and did it. And I think that's, that's so much of like trusting this is going to work out because it's really important that it works out. To answer your question, I think what makes me different maybe is that my mom would say it's like stubbornness and a refusal to do what she tells me to do. Which I think especially like, you know, growing up in a Japanese American household, was like, my mom had a really, really hard time with that. And I think that, you know, the funny thing is, my grandma, who lives in Japan looks at my life, and she's like, you're living my dream. And to hear that, I know, isn't that so? So touching? To hear that, you know, I wrote a book, a guidebook to waterfalls, and my grandma loves waterfalls, and she loves making when she was more mobile, and she's like, this is what you're doing is incredible. And I wish I could have done it. And so to hear that sort of thing, like, even though everything has been, you know, it seems like how did this get all lined up? It wasn't a clear path. To hear that it makes it feel like it's totally worth it.
Sydney Williams 26:09
Oh, I love man. Got my heart with the grandma comment. I'm like, Oh, God, I just love it on so many levels, like from a, from a just a human to human thing. But also just like the capacity for you to be able to do what you're doing and the path that you're the trail that you're blazing for other women of color and other just adventurers that want to go do cool stuff. This is it. When we're when we're in it, like when we're in this industry, I guess like I don't work for an outdoorsy brand. But I guess we are in the outdoor industry. It's hard to it's kind of hard to remember that this isn't the default for everybody. So it's nice to nice to hear that and nice to reflect on that with you. And like just imagine the joy, your waterfall loving grandmother must feel on like a daily basis because you're doing all this cool stuff. Another thought that I was thinking as it pertains to going and doing these things, and just going for it is I I've been I just completely lost my train of thought. So there's that. And when I wake up at three in the morning, and remember the question I was going to ask you, it's going to be great. But so if we go back to the trusting ourselves and trusting the universe and trusting other people, and how that like it starts with us, right? Like we have to have that for ourselves, in order to be able to let some of this stuff go like I don't like numbers, I should probably hire somebody. Do you all have you felt like that self trust and self awareness has been innate and natural to you? Or is that something that you've had to overcome or work for or fight to embody? Because it sounds to me like this is just how you're wired? And maybe it is that simple. But are there any stories or instances or experiences that have given you the capacity to know yourself that well, and to trust that you can do this?
Liz Thomas 28:21
Yeah, I think that's so nice, that you're like, oh, maybe you've always been like this. I don't think that's true at all. And one of the best things, though, is I think the more times that I do something that's like out there, the more times I'm like, Oh, wait, that worked out last time. So maybe it's okay to take another take another jump. And I think you know, the Appalachian Trail fkt you know, doing something I just come off the Continental Divide Trail, which you know, like bears and lightning storms and river boards, and there was no trail really, when I did it, I was just like, all these things. And so to come from that and be like, I did that one. Alright, so maybe an fkt on the Appalachian Trail is not such a big jump. I think, you know, they kind of build on each other and help us build confidence.
Sydney Williams 29:11
I couldn't agree more. And I think that's like, I really try to not get lost in the metaphors and the parallels between life and hiking, but you can't help it like when you've been one when you've been impacted by anything and I'm sure that there's people that fly fish that are going around spouting about fishing and rivers the way I talk about trails and mountains but I just there's something so I guess primal like like the core of being a mammal like not even human, where it's like we're so separated from nature, that we ourselves, forget that we are nature, and I know that the more time I spend outside, the more connected I feel to everything the the end, the more that I realized that that everything that I thought mattered and everything that I've been conditioned to believe is important or that I should care about or that I should strive for doesn't actually matter. And so I'm curious like in the 20,000 plus miles you've spent on the trail were you what initially drew you in to all of this like you've I mean, like you're like a thru hiking legend Outside Magazine said, like, you've had like some really nice and complimentary things said about you and your career outdoors, by some pretty like, authoritative positions her people in positions of power on the subject who were like, they know how, like, what, what drew you in? And what keeps you coming back? Because 20,000 Miles is a lot of miles. So why why do you keep doing it? And what what got you here in the first place?
Liz Thomas 31:00
Yeah, I think, like a lot of thru hikers, I started with this sort of idea of, like, a thru hike was gonna, like, prove to myself that I was hardcore, and I could do hard things, you know, like every 21 year old looking to do. And I think the more that I do it, it's like, the complete opposite of like, I go out there. So like, I can be quiet, and I can like calm my mind. And like, just kind of like exist in a space with my, I think a lot about this term. Like, I also do a lot of yoga. And I think, you know, yoga is all about mind body. And for me, as a hiker, it's all about mind, body place. And just kind of like, feeling like I'm this being walking through landscape. So it's gone from a very, like, ego centered sort of thing to almost like this, like, I want to completely erase my ego from the landscape.
Sydney Williams 31:52
I love that we're like, we're gonna come out here and bag peaks and crush miles and just like, rack it up, I'm gonna just absolutely destroy this trip, but like not, and I think, oh, man, I just I really love the mind body place part because like, I, I, I'm processing in real time. So this might take a while, but like, I have always, like, I have a very distinct moment where I was like, if if mind and body are like these things this, like, cables or something like it gets plugged in, or they get attached, or they like, reconnect, like we're avatar, we're plugging into the source tree, whatever. Like I have all these like visuals of like what that moment was and like what was happening, and for me, it was on the trans Catalina trail, but mind body place like I hadn't ever I like I've always talked about that mind body moment, in the context of the place, but I hadn't stopped to consider that place is so integral to it. That is it is mind body place. It's not just like, so this one place gave me mind body, it's like no, like, it's because of the place that mind body was possible. I'm going to need to sit with that for a few minutes. And I'm probably not going to come back to it on this episode, but just know that my wheels are turning. And I've got to take away that I don't know what to do with yet. But if there's if there's are there are there things that have happened in your life, like, I know, I'm not the only person that goes out on the trail and processes, but like, if you if you if you started with, like, I'm gonna go crush this because I'm in my early 20s. And this is what early 20s people do. Let's go get this through hike, I'm gonna, I'm gonna slay and then you're coming back and you're like, it's a much more grounded, much more rooted, much like, even just the way I articulate it. Like my voice is slowing down. As I talk about it. I'm like putting myself in that place. And like, this is how I experienced the outdoors. Have there been moments when we think about place? Where it's like, mind body, like, do you also have like these mind moments, if you like think back on your life, in your career in the outdoors, where you're like, this was a place that was pivotal for me because I discovered this about myself or I came to realize some big profound thing about life on this path. Like are there are there places that you go, that hold like a sacred meaning for you that you revisit? Because they were so profound in those kinds of life moments?
Liz Thomas 34:18
Oh, yeah. And this one's going to like kind of make make heads like twist even more because you know, one of the things that that was pivotal told to me was going from long distance hiking in nature to go into urban long distance hiking, which kind of throws this whole mind body place thing, like I would say throws it out the window, but like it kind of like goes into a different dimension of like, what does it mean to be connected to my mind and body when I'm in an urban environment? And I think going back to that idea of like things that trail teaches you it that urban hiking taught me to find beauty wherever I am defined nature wherever I am, and to kind of like, like narrow my focus to where those spots of beauty are.
Sydney Williams 35:03
Oh, yes. Yeah, oh my gosh, obviously, because you've repeated some trails like you've through hiked a couple or a handful, or maybe more than that of these trails more than once. Like, I know that AT in particular, are there like, when you are considering an upcoming adventure, like you've you've been known for a fastest known time on a trail you've already completed. And you've also been somebody to create to like, do the first traverse of a range? So what is it about those different opportunities, and if we think about all the different ways that you can experience a long distance hike, whether that's in a brand new place that you've never been before, that maybe other humans haven't? Like, we know that humans probably have, but like, hasn't been recorded? First, like, first person ever, that we know of, to? Urban? Like, that's a very wide spectrum of experiences. What is it? Like? What are the kinds of things that are attractive to you about those different kinds of environments? And do you seek out different kinds of environments to have different kinds of experiences when you're going out into nature?
Liz Thomas 36:19
Yeah, I think, you know, with the urban one of the things I love about urban is, is it's so easy to talk with others about the benefits of hiking, and really open up the mind, the minds of a lot of people who are like, oh, you know, I'd like to go hiking, I like the idea of hiking, but I don't like mosquitoes or bears or whatever. So that's something I really, really enjoy about the urban experience is sort of the social aspect. And then as far as like, you know, there's, there's joy to be had from hiking a trail I already know. And reflecting on like, how I've changed as a person, and there's joy and going out on on a mountain range no one has, has recorded, traversed and being like, I have no idea what's going on. This is really scary. Like, yeah, like kind of that sort of unknown. So, you know, I think as you said, like, it just kind of depends on what sort of experience I'm looking for.
Sydney Williams 37:13
Oh, that's so neat. And i i That's one of the reasons why I was excited to have you. On this very special mini season, celebrating five years of Hiking My Feelings because it was after learning about you and your experiences, both on rugged wilderness the most picturesque trails you can possibly think of when you think of like the beauty of the outdoors. And for all the reasons that you just said about urban hiking, like Liz Thomas is the inspiration for our take a hike diabetes campaign, I was like, okay, so I like I had my experience out in the middle of nowhere on an island. And that was cathartic. And all the reasons why it was because there was nobody else out there. I could let it rip, I could cry, I could, you know, do whatever I need to do. I could like almost poop my pants and not have the whole town see it because I wasn't on the side of the street. Like, I had that. And then I got curious. I was like, okay, that's awesome. But like, what if you don't have access to that? Like, what if you can't get to a state park? What if you can't get to a national park? What if what if that requires an airline ticket or a multi day drive and you are working a job or multiple jobs or you have kids and you can't take time off work? Like there's so much about the romantic side of wilderness that excludes people just for the sheer fact of the geographic location. So when I heard about this concept of urban hiking and how you had done it, and all the reasons why you loved it, it was in tandem with this take a hike diabetes campaign. And we had already talked about like, I already had the awareness of the Chicago outer belt. But it wasn't until like, through speaking with you and understanding some of the things that you've experienced on the urban side of things, where I was like, Oh, well, like now I'm curious, like, is it possible for me to feel the same way I feel in the middle of nowhere on a rail to trail project? Is it possible for me to feel the same way that I feel on an extremely difficult hike? Because for me at the beginning of my journey, the harder the better, because the harder it was, the more I was out of my head and into my body, which allowed me to process and allowed me to feel the things I needed to feel would would I be able to achieve the same benefits doing urban hikes? So we went and we hiked 220 miles around Chicago, and it was the same thing like what you were saying it was like we got to talk to everybody. We had like 50 people come out and join us for that hike, which like, doesn't sound like a lot compared to the big corporate numbers that I'm used to pull in in my previous chapters where it's not a success unless 1000s of people show up and then arena is sold out. But like 50 people is not bad. Like I was like oh look at us like that was like total throughout the whole trip like at some points. We were rolling like, 20, something deep, just walking around Chicago people like what are you doing? Like we're on a trail, we're hiking and they're like, you're in the city you're walking, it's like, is there a difference? Like there's, there's so much education that can happen, that by the time you get out to someplace like rugged and wild and remote, you gotta want to be there. So like, there's not like the people that are there we all have, it's one of the beautiful things about spending time in remote wilderness is like, we all have something in common, we have a desire to have this experience. Whereas with urban, we can just be walking, and we could change lives just by existing like, that's a really powerful thing, too. So I just wanted to like call out and thank you for the advocacy that you've done, and the way that you articulate the experience about the difference between remote and urban hiking, because that opened my eyes to what was possible. And as a community that year, in 2021, we hiked more than 54,000 miles for diabetes awareness. And most of those people weren't going to national parks, most of those people were doing like a lap around their neighborhood or a walk down to the city park. And there's, there's something to be said, for having more of these conversations and finding the language to articulate but also having the breadth of experience to be able to compare, because if I didn't know, rugged, remote, then I wouldn't have that deep appreciation for what is possible when it's just you, and bears, and mooses, all the other things that like want to hurt you or they don't want to hurt you, they just don't want you to be in their way. And then on the flip side of that, like if I had only ever done, like urban stuff, I might have never thought about what was possible in a remote setting. So I love having the breadth of experience. And I love that you've made it so easy to understand why urban hiking is hiking. And I think by the sheer fact of you doing what you do in this space, we're removing some of the gates that are keeping people out from having these experiences because for a lot of folks that we met in 2021, they're like, I'm not hiking. I'm like, Yeah, you are, are you walking for pleasure? Like are you walking to explore, then you're hiking, like, it doesn't matter if it's concrete or trail, it doesn't matter if it's a mountain or a city block. Like if your gut like for me a hike is a walk with intention. It's not necessarily from one place to another, like sure you got to get to where you're going on the trail. But it's not like, like walking in town to the convenience store to me is not an urban hike to me and urban hike is like with the intent to explore the way I intend to explore the wilderness. For folks that are out there that are like, well, hot dog. I never really thought about that. And now maybe I could feel included in this community of hikers, like how do you define her urban hiking? How do you find hiking at all? Like you've hiked 20,000 miles? If you had to guess, do you know the split of where those miles have been achieved? Like urban versus like remote and rugged?
Liz Thomas 42:58
Yeah, I mean, that 20,000 Counting is probably mostly in on, you know, it's probably like 19 119 1000 1000, as far as urban. I have done 14 urban through hikes, but you know, like 250 miles and a city that's seven by seven miles long is pretty good. But I think you know, one of the things that I talk about a lot about is hiking is walking with intention with a sense of exploration, just as you said. And I think that, that. You know, it's when we put our minds into an openness to explore an openness to go someplace we haven't been before an openness to maybe even go someplace where we might not feel the most comfortable. That's kind of where like something happens in the mind. We're something clicks and it allows ourselves to get to a spot of perspective in our lives.
Sydney Williams 44:01
Yes, oh my gosh, like I love I just love that one. I love the way you answer questions, because you're like, so succinct, and you always end it on like this bangin' sentence that makes me think because I'm like, I know where I think she's going. And then she's like, No, I'm done. That's all I have to say. I was like, I would explain 9000 things to make sure that people understand my point, but that's my business. I'm so in the I just I admire how grounded you are in what you do, how you do it, how you share about it and your intention behind it. And I know that I said what I think hiking is but it's I I love just by the nature of how you exist in the world. You're welcoming others from all walks of life, from every kind of capacity to have an adventure to do that and to define it for themselves. And I think the way that your path has unfolded just speaks to that without you even speaking of it, when we think about if we kind of bring this back to the topic of the show the title of the show Wellness in the Wilderness, much like how I think hiking is a walk with intention. And I love the addition of like, with the intent to explore. I also think that wilderness carries a lot of weight, positive or negative, like the idea of wilderness like I, we talk about it as if humans have not lived here for 8 10 12 1000s of years like that, but it just hasn't previously been occupied by people who have stewarded this land so beautifully before we came in ruined it. So I also want to say like, just with a blanket disclaimer, wilderness for me, similar to the wider definition of hiking, like wilderness, for me is a place that you haven't been before. And that doesn't mean that other people have never existed there. But it's allowing yourself to kind of step into an explorer role, leading with curiosity, in whatever space that is. And for me, like, I think one of the reasons why I love urban hiking and the the concept of setting out on an adventure and not just like walking around town, again, like creating a route or finding a thing or, you know, creating, maybe you're going on an urban would you do like a taco hike, like what I need to be your friend, that's so cool. Like, we need to go on a taco hike, but I think but like, for me, like the wilderness of Chicago, like I lived in Chicago for a bit. And I saw more of that city in the 20 days that I was walking around it than I did in the two years that I lived there. So for me like to kind of back out on wellness in the wilderness like wellness is whatever makes you feel good. However you feel like your best most healthiest supported, expressed alive accepted self. Wilderness is whatever you make it a place you'd like to go see that maybe you haven't been there before, but also kind of tapping into the wilderness within us. Like, that's something we've really been leaning in on at Hiking My Feelings since I like found the language to articulate the experience I've been trying to verbalize, which is the world has all this stuff out here. And we've got a lot of the stuff in here. And the more that we recognize the patterns that are mirroring each other, the more holistic I think and the more grounded our experience can be. So with all of that said, and taking all of your experiences into consideration, what helps you feel well, in whatever kind of wilderness you're traversing through, and I'd love to hear like, maybe that's like a couple tips for thru hikers because like wellness on a thru hike and the rugged remote is very different from like wellness on a taco hike through LA. So like, let's kind of divide those up and let us know what brings you wellness and your versions of the wilderness.
Liz Thomas 47:58
Yeah, I would say you know, first of all, I would say, you know, like, there's wilderness on an urban trail, there's wilderness on a more traditional hiking trail. And there's also there's the wilderness of of everyday life. And I think one of the things that I use across all three of them is I'm really big on routines. And, you know, like hydration. No matter which of those trials, you're hiking, you know, really paying attention to like, are my needs being met as far as like, am I warm enough? Am I too too hot? Are bugs bothering me? How are my feet very important across urban and wilderness hikes. So I think you know, that sort of self care, self monitoring, being self aware of our feelings, and also knowing when not to push it too much. I think knowing limitations is really important as well. And I think on any trail, especially a long distance trail, we got to remember and life the long distance trail of life, we've got to remember like, we're in this for a really, really long time. So go, Oh, that's awesome that I can go 100% and give it my all, but maybe giving it 100% giving it your all every single day, every single minute is not actually what I need.
Sydney Williams 49:19
Yeah, and if we're talking about inner wilderness and outer wilderness like something that it wasn't until so after our 2021 campaign for take a hike diabetes, that year was the year I've had the most that I've recorded, at least that I am aware of in my life, which is like 1100 miles and I was like, Oh my God, I'm such a beast. It's just insane. And then that was also the first year that I had experienced a literal winter in forever since I left Kansas. I did like one winter in Chicago, but on like the more like metaphorical sense of winter like taking a rest period, and it fell Like, I felt like, oh, I hiked over 1000 miles this year, I've earned this rest. And it's like, we don't have to earn rest. But I think that there's something really beautiful about sinking into the seasons. And to your point of not doing everything all the time full out, like, we can't go full gas like it's summer year round, like, and this year in particular, and I don't know if it's like the snowpack in the Sierras, or, and how that's kind of pushed out our timeline on some of our programs this summer up in Sequoia National Park just waiting for the snow to melt. But like, this year, the first five months on the island, were absolutely tornado season for me like not even spring, summer, winter fall like it was just tornado season. I felt like a tornado and a hurricane plus an earthquake all wrapped up in no one. But it's like, this year so far right now, like I keep feeling like we're on the brink of summer, like the solstice just happened like we are in summer it is it is here. But with my proximity to the Sierras and like my, my, my working in and with in that range this year. Like I feel like it's like it's just not there yet. And it feels it feels like a lot of hurry up and wait. Do you have any suggestions or any personal experience you can share for folks that are feeling like, Oh, God, let's just hold me I don't have to get full gas all the time. Now what like how do you how do you how do you personally adjust from go go go go go to like, bring it down and like kind of settling into a different season of life.
Liz Thomas 51:33
Yeah, that that can be difficult. For me, I think completely unplugging, which is sometimes hard. helps a lot. I as I mentioned earlier, I was just hiking in Scotland. And there are places that have reception and Wi Fi in Scotland. And I was just like, You know what, I'm going to make a commitment to myself to not turn my phone on for any purpose other than like, taking a photo for the next 10 days. And, you know, that was a scary thing to let go. But I feel so much more refreshed. And you know, when I'm on a wilderness on a traditional wilderness hike. You know, the way we've set up our cell towers kind of naturally does that for me. But I think to have to make that make it a choice, and then just roll with it. That was really hard. And I think it paid off.
Sydney Williams 52:30
Yeah, it sounds like it did. So before we wrap up, do you have any takeaways or any moments from Scotland that you'd like to share with us?
Liz Thomas 52:43
Yeah, you know, going back to this idea of like, what is an urban trail? What is wilderness? You know, like, when I was in school, I read this book called Wilderness in the American Mind, that talks about lot about like, how how Americans think about like, what what wilderness with a capital W means. And you know, being in Scotland and hiking through areas that have been that that are have been populated for 10,000 years. And, you know, their trail is an old Roman road. And sometimes it's a bike trail, and sometimes it's a Forest Service path. And everyone is just like, yeah, that's what hiking is going through a town. It's a very different conception of how we think about hiking, then here, where it's like, got to be a national park, where I can't see any cell towers and can't see any farm ruins, or old forts or whatever. So I think, you know, the more ways that we get out and explore and move our bodies, the more we can kind of think of like, hiking is just like a way of life that can teach us things, and can create space for us to learn things about ourselves and about others. And less about like, this is the best type of hiking.
Sydney Williams 53:57
I love that because they're like I you know, at the end of the day, I was talking about this the other day, as I was like, turning around on Mount Olympus up in Salt Lake City, Barry had, we made a big list of hikes we wanted to do when we were in OR or out there for Outdoor Retailer. And we were like, Let's just get this first big one out of the way. And we'll just like, adjust after that. Nevermind that I was on a beach in San Diego 36 hours prior. And I'm thinking like, oh, like going up to like 6,7,8,9 grand, like, that's not a big deal. It's not fourteeners like, I'll be fine. I got two and a half miles into the sucker. And I was like, either, there's two things that are true. My body was like, No, you you were at sea level for the previous five months up until like, 36 hours ago, we need to slow down. But also like I had, I had just been like, I hadn't really created the space I needed for a big fat cry. And so I just needed that to happen. And I got up to this like I got like two and a half miles into this thing. And I was like, nope, nope this aint for me. And the the, the thoughts that followed immediately after listening to my body, were so egregious and so disrespectful of all the work that I've done. Because I was like, Well, surely this means the end of this experience. This means the end of my business like because I use hiking as a metaphor, sometimes to a fault where I'm like, okay, building a business, that's a hike. Would I turn around on Hiking My Feelings? No, I wouldn't I would keep charging one foot in front of the other. Yes, sure, I'd take a rest. And I'd eat and I'd go take a dip in a lake, and I do all the things that make building this fun. But like, at the end of the day, I don't turn around on this. My marriage, do I turn around in my marriage? No, like, I keep putting one foot in front of the other. And so I was doing this hike. And I was like, because I hold hiking as this metaphor that's like, it's almost become my personality that like, I just keep putting one foot in front of the other. Because I'm a survivor, I don't give up. And I'm gonna say, This is dumb. Like, I just, I don't want to be on this trail anymore. So like when it comes to kind of like weaving all these things back together when it comes to trusting yourself when it comes to being able to let things go. Because it sounds like if you didn't have all the experiences that you had, and you were in Scotland, and you didn't, you hadn't already arrived at the realization of your weaknesses and hired to supplement those. It sounds like you wouldn't have even had the capacity to go to this trip, let alone to do it disconnected. So if there's one thing that we could take away from everything that you've experienced, if there was just like somebody out there that's like, you know, what I need? I need, like, a quick blurb about why I should trust myself and why hiking is a great place to build that trust. Do you got anything along those lines, like some parting words for folks that can help them step into the next chapter of, I don't know, maybe like self belief. Because what I'm hearing when I hear about your adventures, this I've asked seven questions in this very long sentence. So I'll nail it down with one at the end. Because I'm thinking out loud, but like, what I what I'm hearing in all the dots that we're connecting here on your particular experience, urban rugged, remote, trusting yourself hiring for things that you suck at, or you don't like doing. Like, what is what is the mechanism that inspires you to keep putting one foot in front of the other?
Liz Thomas 57:39
Yeah, I think I think, you know, I've tried different things like, society's expectations, or like, what people were think of me or what my mom wants me to do, or what I'm supposed to do, according to my teachers, and the only thing that really works for me is following joy. And when I follow joy when I follow a purpose, even when things are temporarily hard, when there's a thunderstorm and my feet hurt, and or, you know, like trying to make ends meet and business or whatever, you know, it feels like there's a purpose, and it's like, okay, this is gonna pass. I know, this is like, really difficult right now, and I'm having trouble sleeping, but it's going to be over and it's going to be worth it. So I think, I think looking for the small joy and following the big joy. It's like, the only thing that ever really feels right.
Sydney Williams 58:35
I love that. And I Yes, because and for anybody that's listening, where you're like, I haven't, joy? I don't know her like I haven't. I haven't felt joy in months or years or decades. And for folks that are like purpose, where do you find that you get it at the store? I think what Liz is saying, and what I'll echo is when you can find something that brings you as much joy and maybe it's hiking, like clearly for Liz and I, its hiking. But if you can find something that just gives you that unfettered sense of joy, or peace, or acceptance or feeling included, even if you're all alone on the trail, or wherever you're at, like find the thing that brings you joy, and then like really lean into it, because through that you'll be able to discover your purpose. Because like, I don't think that joy, the things that bring you joy might not be your purpose, but the things that bring you joy could point you in the right direction of it. Would you agree with that?
Liz Thomas 59:34
Yeah, I would definitely agree. And I would also add, like, for us hiking, hiking is a great way to find our joy but I would also say you know, like go try a whole bunch of random things. Go try dancing and volleyball and like pottery or whatever, and see what brings you joy. And you don't have to take more than a couple classes to be like yep, this is really like sparking something or like no, I'm gonna move on to the next thing. I think as adults, it's not. That's not something that naturally we think about doings. Like, let's go try out a whole bunch of new hobbies. But I totally agree that there's something about doing something new, or going someplace new that that just kind of like gets our mind like, Oh, I could do this or like, maybe this is my purpose. It just kind of like rewires everything in there.
Sydney Williams 1:00:19
Yeah, I like that too. And on the on the note of trying things differently, like a reflection that I'll offer before we start wrapping things up here, like I pick, I, for my like, my best example, my intro into my joy was deciding that it was okay for me to buy a camera and use it because the story I had been telling myself is that my dad's a photo journalist, my sister's a photographer, there's not room for another. Nevermind that there's like literally millions of cameras sold every year. Like, for whatever reason, I was excluded. And I picked up a camera. And while like photography is a big part of what we do now, it is not by any stretch, one of my favorite, I don't even consider it a hobby. It's just it's so ingrained in what I do and how I document and how I remember. But that that single moment where I was like, Oh, I could like I'm not excluded from having this experience. I'm going to try it. And then I was like, then because I was like, I was coming from spreadsheet and corporate marketing land. I was like, oh my god, I'm a creative nevermind that I've been writing my entire life. And that is art in and of itself. I was like, oh my god, I'm creative. Well, what else do creative people do? They take improv classes. So I took four improv classes like I went, Well, I went through four levels of improv study at the school that I studied at. And I didn't go there. Like obviously, like, if I happen to end up on a like cast of Saturday Night Live with no real effort or experience, I would have welcomed that for me. But like, I didn't go there with the intent of being famous. I didn't go there with the intent of learning how to do improv. And the improv was like now my career path. I just wanted to try something new. And in doing so, I met one of my greatest teachers, Gary Ware, who like, really helped me reframe life and through the art of improv and through the power of Yes And just like understanding what it means to play. Then hiking had a whole new layer to it, because then I was like, oh, okay, well, if this is true, what else is true? If this is possible, what else is possible? And it was through that kind of thinking that started with picking up a camera because I didn't think I could, and then signing up for classes that I had no intention of, like completing to graduation, that I was introduced to enough things where I could realize what brought me joy, because like, the reality of the situation is the world we live in is hard. It always has been and always will be. I have this vision of a utopia where we all just like sit around, we go for hikes, we cook the food that lives in our garden, and like there's no violence, there's no hate, and there's no whatever. But then I think back on history, because we all have like selective amnesia. And in every society, there has always been healers. There have always been doctors or some kind of somebody like that. And there have always been warriors that go out to kill the people that are trying to come get what we got. That my version of Utopia, I don't think ever will exist. But what does exist is that feeling of wholeness of support of community, within myself and in the outdoors in the spaces that I occupy. So if if nothing else, do what Liz said, Go try something new. Go do it. Like anything that you love doing as a kid. That's a great place to start, like, go play outside, go swing on the swings, and then pay attention to the thoughts that come up, because that might stir something cool. Um, Liz, what are you working on? Right now you've got Treeline Review. Do you have any cool hiking projects? Are you working on other books? Like what what's in the pipeline for you and all the things you care about?
Liz Thomas 1:03:43
Yeah, definitely. So Treeline Review. Definitely a very big part of my life. We have some really cool stories coming out soon. One is about tips for thru hiking as an LGBTQ hiker, which is something that we haven't seen a lot of information about, and especially in light of the current political situation. Very important work. As far as other things that I've got doing, I'm actually going to be up in the Sierras as well for the next month. And I'm going to be teaching a workshop on appreciating the environment around us and also writing about our experiences as we're outdoors. So I'm working with college students I'm really excited about about doing that and living up there for a month. And then I've got I'm going out with a really great Confluence Collective group. Yeah. At the beginning of August, too, as we were talking about trying new things, I would also like to add one thing about trying new things. It's okay, if I'm not good.
Sydney Williams 1:04:39
Yeah, if we suck it's fine.
Liz Thomas 1:04:42
Totally okay to suck. What matters is like, am I having fun? So fly fishing, something I suck at but I like being out on the water and that's what matters. And then I'm also doing a trip in August with some of my, a reunion trip with some of my friends from the PCT. And I think I'm really, really looking forward to that because we haven't backpacked together since the PCT.
Sydney Williams 1:05:09
Oh, I love that.
Liz Thomas 1:05:12
And one of my friends is a mom now and it's just like, you know, we're in different places in our life. But I think the trail teaches us the importance of sort of, it creates deep friendships, it creates space to really be ourselves. And you know, it doesn't matter that we live 1000s of miles away from each other like we made this trip happen.
Sydney Williams 1:05:31
Yes. Oh, well, if for no other reason, get outside because it gives us the space to be ourselves. I'm ending it there. All right, where can people stay in touch? How can they follow along? Where's Liz living online?
Liz Thomas 1:05:45
Yeah, I'm on Instagram @LizThomashiking, also, Facebook, LizThomashiking, and you can always see what I'm up to at tree line review, which is @treelinereview on Instagram and also on facebook and treelinereview.com
Sydney Williams 1:06:00
Yay! Liz, thank you so much for making the time to spend with us today, and sharing how you find your wellness in the wilderness. Until next time, I hope everybody here has found this conversation to be a breath of fresh air. Be good to yourself, be good to each other, live the best life you possibly can. Whatever that looks like for you and go find your joy dammit, we need more of that in the world. Until next time, we'll see you later.
Announcer 1:06:24
Sawyer is more than an outdoor company. Every Sawyer product you buy contributes to our common humanity, bringing Sawyer water filtration systems to people in need all around the world. In just 2022 alone. 260,000 households in over 45 countries received clean drinking water through Sawyer filters. Over the past 10 years, we've teamed up with over 140 charities in 80 countries to provide long term sustainable relief domestically, internationally and in disaster situations. Together, we're saving millions of lives. Thank you. Ready to find your Wellness in the Wilderness? Look no further than Hiking My Feelings through a combination of community and self discovery. Our programs are designed to give you the space and support to connect life starts. If you're looking to figure out who you are underneath the stories you've been given, and are ready to redesign the map of where you're headed with actionable steps and opportunities to dream big. We're here to walk alongside you. Whether you're a seasoned adventure enthusiast, or brand new to the healing power of nature. We've got your back. Visit hikingmyfeelings.org today to download our free trail thoughts worksheets, and learn more about Hiking My Feelings. Thanks for joining us on this week's show. We hope this episode has been a breath of fresh air for you and has inspired you to find your Wellness in the Wilderness. We will reconnect with nature and new again next week.
