E4: Diving Deeper into Self-Love, Sea-Love, and SurfSisterhood
If you've ever sat on the beach and felt the waves crashing into the shore, you have some sense of the power that the ocean contains. But have you ever fully engaged your senses in the ocean?
For Natalie Small, founder of Groundswell Community Project, it was the full sensory immersion that helped her understand the healing power of Mother Ocean. Born and raised in North Carolina and later moving to Los Angeles, family vacations revolved around spending time on the water. Upon moving to LA with the ocean 45 minutes away, the absence of regular access to the water caught her attention. Lacking a community of women in the water, she learned how to surf from some water polo players and it sparked something deep inside her. After a short stint living in Argentina, she committed to a life on and in the water, and her life has never been the same since. Now a licensed Family & Marriage therapist, Natalie Small started to recognize the healing powers of Mother Ocean for herself and wanted to share this healing with others. Through Groundswell, she has brought community back into the healing journey and is now on the cutting-edge of sharing her love of surfing as a therapeutic modality. In this episode, we'll be chatting with Natalie about how she found her way to Mother Ocean, what inspired her to start Groundswell Surf Therapy, and how the community has helped thousands of women around the world find self-love, sea-love and sisterhood.
ABOUT OUR GUEST:
Natalie Small is a Licensed Marriage and Family therapist, sailing captain and founder of Groundswell Surf Therapy - a non-profit community that is paving the way for surf therapy to become a recognized and honored healing modality that welcomes all to reclaiming their healing, power, and belonging in the waves.
Natalie was born in North Carolina, moved to LA and learned to surf once she could drive, and from that point on surfing and sailing the ocean guided her life's journey impacting and inspiring everything from her career, to her play, to her marriage to semi pro Peru surfer and founder of LDC surf board bags Javier Larco Ganoza. During her studies she got the privilege to be mentored by Graciella Botoni, the South American president of International Expressive Arts Therapy Association which shifted her therapy practice from talk therapy to somatic and art therapies. Her work lead her to training care takers and providing art and somatic based therapy for women trauma survivors of sexual, gender, and racial violence from the Philippines, Mexico, Peru, Cuba, and the United States. Natalie adventured to waves between each training and program and noticed a huge lack of local women and girls surfers at the breaks she surfed and began exploring what the barriers where and how she could use her privilege as a white woman to increase access and elevate the voices of local women as they reclaim their belonging in mother ocean.
IN THIS EPISODE:
How did Natalie get into surfing?
What was it about surfing that brought it to the forefront of her self-care practice?
What were the barriers that she faced – internally or externally – about calling surfing therapy?
How would she describe her work to someone who has never surfed and never had access to clinical therapy?
How does Groundswell educate folks about the potential risks of pursuing a surf therapy program?
Quick tip for our listeners: how can folks find their version of wellness in the wilderness that is Mother Ocean?
Caller question: What is the difference between a “presencing” space and a “processing” space?
What is coming up in 2023?
CONNECT WITH NATALIE + GROUNDSWELL:
LISTEN HERE:
SHOW TRANSCRIPT:
Please note, we use Otter.ai to transcribe episodes and while the technology is impressive, it’s not completely accurate. Please excuse any missed words, nonsensical sentences, and missed interpretations of foreign language below:
Announcer 00:00
Since 1984, Sawyer has existed to support your wildest adventures. Learn about their advanced insect repellents and family of technical Lightweight Water filters at sawyer.com. Welcome to Wellness in the Wilderness. Come with us on the trail of life as we inspire you to take a step outdoors to disconnect from the distractions and reconnect with yourself. Sydney Williams in our guests will motivate you to get active and get well. Now, here is Sydney.
Sydney Williams 00:37
Well, Welcome to Wellness in the Wilderness. I'm your host Sydney Williams, author and founder of Hiking My Feelings and today I'm broadcasting live from the ancestral lands of the Kumeyaay People now known as Julian California. If you're a brand new listener, thank you for tuning in. We hope you enjoy the show. And if you've been here since the first episode, all three of them prior to this one. Welcome back. We hope that no matter where you lie on this outdoorsy spectrum we're exploring. We hope that you find this something useful in this episode that can help you find your version of wellness in the wilderness. Now about our guest today, Natalie S mall lived with the ocean most of her life, being away from the waters feels like leaving home. For that reason she knitted her profession and love for the ocean together through Groundswell Community Project, a nonprofit that provides a safe space for women battling with mental health problems. Surf therapy is the main focus of the healing process, which serves in many levels. Natalie believes that surfing is an art in which every participant can learn to create something beautiful out of their awful past, and offers not only a temporary fix, rather, the skills learned from the course serves as a tool that participants can use throughout their entire lifetime. In this episode, we'll be chatting with Natalie about how she found her way to Mother ocean. What inspired her to start groundswell surf therapy, and how the community has helped 1000s of women around the world find self love, sea love and sisterhood. Welcome to the show, Natalie.
Natalie Small 01:57
Thank you. This is exciting. This is my first like live radio experience. And so thank you for having me.
Sydney Williams 02:03
Yay. We're so glad you're here. And before we talk about all the amazing things that you've done with Groundswells since its inception, I'd love to take a trip down memory lane. How did you get into surfing?
Natalie Small 02:15
I mean, surfing I feel like has been part of my life, from the very beginning through. And when I say surfing, I like to think of surfing as any way of engaging Mother Ocean and building that relationship with the ocean. And so from surfing the waves on my body as a kid I did lots of body surfing and boogie boarding, to surfing the waves and sailing out of deeper seas. To even I just came from our surf therapy facilitator retreat down in Mexico and they were speaking into the reality of us like surfing out of the wombs of our mothers, because the salinity of our amniotic fluid is the similar salinity to that of the ocean. And so I like to think that Surfing has been a part of who I am and how I exist in the world before I even knew that it was called surfing. But my first first time surfing on a surfboard, was in junior high. And at Leo Carillio State Beach and along the coast of California near Los Angeles. And I had a couple guy friends that did water polo, and they invited me to go with them and my Dad was very wary of me disappearing with a bunch of boys at the beach. And so my Dad drove us down and to in like chaperoned us on my first surf experience. And they just handed me like a little tiny short board gave me zero direction, and we just paddled out and I don't I literally don't remember it. I think I just blacked out. So overwhelming. I kinda lost. Yeah, the only thing I actually remember just being like more to flee, like just mortified that my Dad was there wearing a Speedo. That was like the biggest memory of that experience.
Sydney Williams 04:08
Oh my gosh, and well, to back up for just a second. I love the conversations you were having at your facilitators retreat down in Mexico about surfing out of the womb, like I, I could like do a whole episode on just that. So I want to just acknowledge that I love that you're thinking about that. I'm visualizing how you've spent time in water from conception to present day and how just how deeply ingrained the power of the ocean and the water is in your life and your work and everything you've done, and the vision of your Dad and a Speedo I haven't met your father. But as a woman who has a father who like to wear Speedos just at our pool in our backyard, so he gets sun and not get a weird tan. I empathize with you.
Natalie Small 04:53
So, it's obviously a scarring experience.
Sydney Williams 04:59
Oh man. All right. So you were not actually blacked out but have no memory of the first surf experience. I really actually love, just like trial by fire in an ocean. And I'm assuming that when we talk about the Groundswell Surf Therapy Project, that that's not how you introduce people to the water.
Natalie Small 05:42
Yeah, I mean, when I when I first began surfing after that middle school blackout theater experience, it became, I just got hooked. And so it became something that we would like drive after school, got out, drive straight to the beach, surf at county line, camp out in the car, and then surf in the morning and come back to school. And it really helped me find a sense of home within California, I'm originally from North Carolina, and had a really hard time adjusting to life in the big city. And so the ocean was my reconnection back to nature back to myself back to experiencing home and community. Previously, my my nature experience was all like forests and trees and my like, when I would get upset or get in trouble or was crying or had different emotions coming in as a kid, I would go and go up to my tree and hang out in my tree. And that was the space that held me. And when I moved out to California, I didn't have that same access point and surfing the waves and Mother Ocean was what started helping me have that space of being held and escape from everything else that was going on in life and just a place just to be with myself. And then when I moved, I ended up like shifting everything I was originally wanted to go back to school for university on the East Coast. And then after I started surfing, I was like, Oh my gosh, these waves over here, this is what I need more of and so ended up going to school down in San Diego, Point Loma, Nazarene and served sunset cliffs for four years straight. I didn't serve any other waves. And it was the place I almost I mainly serve by myself, I had a hard time finding at a handful of other girlfriends that would surf with me. And it was them and myself. And it was just a sanctuary, a place of connecting a place of like whether I was grieving and going through a breakup or rage or just pure bliss and excitement for life. I could go out into the ocean and just be held in it. And I remember even just the conversations that would spark up with random people that I would never see again, out in the lineup, from people being being able to talk about like, my wife's about my wife's pregnant, and I can't tell anybody but I can tell you because we're out here together to people talking about Everybody was equalized, and everybody got tumbled and held under and everybody pops up on the other side makes eye contact and like we made it Okay, keep going. And it just, yeah, it was like this connecting point of, of simply just being humans versus all the other things that we throw on each other back home.
Sydney Williams 09:14
I am obsessed with so many of the things that you said and I'm going to kind of pull them out one by one. The first one being that notion of the great equalizer that is the ocean and the waves. What a beautiful thing to have access to what an incredible awareness to bring into your life that would then create that sense of equality on an off the water. I imagine. If you find that connection on the water, it's perhaps a little bit easier to facilitate that on land. Is that true for you?
Natalie Small 09:51
Yeah, I mean, that comes down to it's hard to if you haven't experienced it, it's hard to replicate it. And so even like when we're teaching our surf therapy facilitators and teaching surf therapy, we teach everything through an experiential lens and, and process. And that is that piece of once you've experienced something your neurological pathway start firing in a new way, and are shifting into like, Oh, this is, this is something that could be possible. And as you experience it more consistently and more frequently, your brains like this isn't just like a one off thing that randomly happened. But this is a reality that I can live within and continue incorporating into the other areas of my life as well. And so from that grand equalizer that you can experience out in the ocean, to experiencing joy to experiencing connection. Once we get a chance to even if it's just like a little tiny moment of connection and joy with another human being or with our bodies or with nature, our brain absorbs that. And starts like re recalculating and refiguring to be like, Oh, that's that is real. And then as we experience it more and more each way is this like helping that neurological pathway go deeper and deeper, into like, this isn't just a one off. But this is really something that's true about me and about the world around me. And then we can take that back on land, whether we're consciously thinking about, like, I'm gonna bring this back into my relationship or back into my, my career and my classroom. But it's naturally happening because the brain has experienced it and deeply knows it now, and is moving from a different perspective and a different worldview.
Sydney Williams 11:29
Yes, yes. Yes, fist pumps in the back. So one of the other things that you mentioned was in the spirit of that connection found on the lineup was the ability to share space and and create space for those kinds of conversations, whether it was sharing that joy, my wife is pregnant, I can't tell you, but I can. I can't tell anybody. But I can tell you, or a recent, you know, difficult diagnosis. When you started having those conversations on the lineup. Were you already in pursuit of becoming a therapist? Or was this more after you had already gone through school and got your license to be a therapist?
Natalie Small 12:11
I yeah, those conversations, I feel like just naturally happen, whether I'm a therapist or not a therapist. And I think I mean, and now being a therapist, and going through all the education and the science and understanding what's happening, there's so much that the ocean does to support that kind of that de-shelling or de-judgments or like that, that shedding of the things that we create the barriers that we create in between each other, through, you're having a shared experience, too, you're, you're able to sit side by side, next to each other. And throughout history, people either sat in circle or sat back side by side as they were hunting and gathering, or weaving, and had conversation. And so that the traditional therapeutic model of sitting across from each other and, and no stimulation isn't actually how we used to have conversation and commune we used to commune in nature, side by side to each other. And the essence of the ocean just bring all of our senses to life. And so even just like right now, if everyone takes a moment to think about the ocean, you can, you can taste the saltiness, you can feel the current, you can feel the temperature of the water, the way it moves, that you can imagine the sound of the waves, as it breaks on either the rocks or the sand or whatever coastline you're you're most attuned to. And so just thinking about the ocean alerts all your senses into the reality of, of living. And so getting to be in the ocean, even turns it on even more so. So you're naturally already in this heightened scent, state of awareness, and aliveness. And it just creates this opportunity to really experience something with another person, and to let go of all those different judgments or barriers, or the fact that we're different, but actually, we're both human out here. And that way, it can take us out the same. And that in itself, when we let go of those different judgments and goggles that maybe we were on land and just see each other as human, it opens up this platform to be able to just vulnerably be and share. And I think that's been from from I mean, surfing has brought me to all different places around the world. And that's been something that I've found consistently is the language of the ocean. No matter what culture I come from, or the other person comes from or language we speak back on land or experiences we've had when we're in the ocean there is this uniting common language of the sea. That trumps everything else.
Sydney Williams 14:50
Oh, yes, take it, man. So before we jump to the next break, I'd love to hear a little bit about how you started your therapy practice how surfing became part of that. And the barriers that you face, whether that was internal or external about calling surfing therapy.
Natalie Small 15:13
There are so many barriers, I mean, in the therapy world, to be to call yourself a therapist is a big deal. You go through your master's program and 3000 hours of working with clients and supervision. And then you have to take a test and you get your, your license. And so it's a big process and so to and then the all the different modalities of therapy have to go through all this research and certification and all of these different things that you have to overcome in order to become a certified EMDR therapist or art therapist or all these different terminologies. And so to call something therapy, or to call yourself a therapist, and something that hasn't gone through that whole process, is in some ways, like belittling the process that all these other therapeutic modalities have gone through. And so for me, when I first started noticing the connection between surfing the ocean connection with our bodies, connection with community and how powerful those were all together, I was nervous to call it therapy and was worried that I would get my license taken away, if I did call it therapy. Because it wasn't, there wasn't the research behind it yet, there wasn't the certification, I couldn't go to school and get certified in it yet. And so there was a lot of hesitation around it. And through a lot of mentorship, a lot of support the international sort of therapy organization, started recognizing that I am a therapist, and I am holding very therapeutic space in the model. And the curriculum that I created with support and mentorship. It is therapy. And so took that took that jump in that leap of starting to call what we were doing as surf therapy. And since then we've been able to dive deeper into doing the research and into bringing different people onto the team to help develop it in a really holistic, grounded, research based trauma informed based model. And we're in that process of it being able to be called therapy and we're the first organization that's providing CEU so that way people can learn about surf therapy and get hours toward their licensure and to continue their licensure. And so we're we're on that process and on those baby steps and I still don't call myself a surgf therapist yet because I want to save that term for once it is in schools and it is acknowledged as a true therapeutic model within the psychology world. But we're getting there and it's exciting.
Sydney Williams 17:45
Oh man Okay, so for those of us that are here and listening live, we have been talking with Natalie Small, founder of Groundswell Surf Therapy Project and Groundswell Community Project, working towards calling surf therapy, surf therapy. And when we get back from the break, we will jump right back in and talk about how the curriculum came to be where it's at what surf therapy actually is, so don't go away. We will be right back.
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Sydney Williams 21:03
Welcome back to Wellness in the Wilderness. I'm Sydney Williams and I've been chatting with Natalie Small founder of Groundswell Community Project. And in our first segment, we were talking about how Natalie got into surfing how that became a really critical part of her self care practice, how she turned her passion for surfing into a therapeutic modality and the process that she's going through in order to officially call it surf therapy and claim the title as a surf therapist. Natalie, welcome back to the show, now you have this curriculum, you are doing stuff all over the world. Talk to me about how you would describe your work to somebody that has never surfed and has never had access to traditional or clinical therapy.
Natalie Small 21:49
Yeah, I mean, I like to think of surf therapy as actually, it's a beautiful piece to add on to your individual therapy, therapy practice, as well as it's a kind of like a gateway into, into self care and into therapy and what that can look like and feel like for each person. Because I mean, therapy really hasn't, hasn't been around that long. The whole career and field of psychology is really just within these last couple of this last century, too. And so, before that people, people healed, people heal by going to nature, people healed by connecting to their bodies, and the wisdom of their bodies and connecting to community. And so I like to think of surf therapy as actually this bridge, between the two worlds between the modern day, psychology world and the ancient ways of healing that had been happening from the beginnings of humanity and the beginnings of animal animals being animals. And it's really reconnecting back to, to our instincts and to our, our animal selves, and being able to listen and learn from, from our bodies, from nature and from community to really be our fullest expression in the world. And a lot of times a lot of the questions that come in when people are like, what is this? What like, is this something for me, too? Am I gonna have to share like, share my story or listen to everybody else's story? Like, how am I what does it look like to show up in those spaces. And I like to kind of reframe the stereotypical therapy model of talk therapy where you have to talk about your problems in order to experience the healing or go through the process. And we are really, the groundswell model is really more of a presencing group rather than a processing group. And so it's really about bringing us back into this present moment. And when you've experienced trauma, and big T or little T trauma, I see that as it's an experience that has happened within you and around you that has altered your your relationship with self, your relationship with the world around you in your relationship with others. And now you're moving through the world with this, this new worldview that has come from that experience of either being like a tangible thing that happened or just not getting enough of what you needed to feel heard and seen and supported, or getting too much. And so the process of surf therapy is really coming back into this present moment. And so trauma triggers are constantly bringing us back into that past experience into that past moment. And the ocean, our community and our bodies are inviting us back into the present. And so it's more of a presencing group rather than a processing group. You can show up and not say a single word the entire eight weeks and still experience powerful transformation. We are inviting our bodies back into the process and so we welcome and a lot of movement and tuning into what's not just what what's happening in your mind, but what's happening in your body. And what are you noticing in your body, what areas of your body are getting tight? What areas of your body want to move? What does your body want to do, and letting the ocean kind of be this. This platform or this canvas for you to try it on, and play with it and experience it and explore it, the the hard stuff and the beautiful stuff. And every wave is this little opportunity to, to try on something different. And so I like to see every wave is almost like this little mini, little mini adverse experience or trauma experience that's coming at you. And rather than typically in life when a trauma experience happens, it blindsides you, you it takes away your right to control on your right to power your right to say yes or no, you're right to choose. And so as we get this opportunity as a wave is coming at us, we get to reclaim our choice and our power and our belonging and to choose like hey, I'm gonna go underneath this wave, I'm gonna jump over the wave, I'm gonna turn around and surf the wave, or I'm gonna let the wave pummel me and see what happens. Knowing that that wave will pass. And I can, there will be a calm after the wave after the set. I can take a moment to regroup, learn from it, experience, like recognize what was that experience, share it with others? And then be like, Okay, what do I want to do with this next wave? Do I want to do the same thing, but I want to try on something different. And so it's every little wave is this opportunity to build new neurological pathways in the brain, and build resiliency and retrain our brains to be able to adventure through the world with resiliency, versus through fear.
Sydney Williams 26:32
Oh, whee, okay, um, couple things. One, I believe that I am still on this planet because survivors of similar trauma to what I survived, were brave enough to share their story and gave me the language that I needed to, one understand that what happened to me wasn't my fault. And two to understand that I wasn't alone. And what you just said about a presencing group versus a processing group is giving me that same feeling. And that everything that you just said about the waves and the opportunities to try something new on and, and handle it differently. And the beautiful metaphor of a wave being like a traumatic event, but now we have this agency over how we respond and what we want to do with it. If you swapped ocean for trail and surfing, for hiking, you literally just unlocked all the language I didn't know I needed, but have felt deeply in my spirit. And every cell of my body, like my hand is on my chest right now. And I'm trying to like, have enough air to finish my sentence. But like, everything that you just said, just put into perspective, what hiking and backpacking is to me, so thank you for diving. So deep pun intended, into surfing as a therapeutic modality and the language that you've developed around how to speak about it, especially when it comes to processing trauma, like I need a nap after this, I need to go go for a hike, I need to like journal for like three days. And I had a feeling this would happen because one of our facilitators actually went through your program. And she was just like Sydney, the likenesses are so wild. And this is like actually therapy. And I'm recognizing like the value of what you do through this lens. And I was just like, Oh, my God, this is wild. So thank you. And I am just absolutely moved by the visual. And some of the other podcasts interviews that you've given where you explain this total sensory immersion in the science of healing in the ocean. Could you touch on that a little bit? You've mentioned the neuroscience, you've mentioned the neural pathways, and how surfing is kind of helping reset that in these activities. And this curriculum gives us new things to work with. Can you give us like the quick and dirty nerdy bits about how the ocean helps us heal and the science behind it?
Natalie Small 28:57
Yeah, I mean, there's so much research that is starting to happen around this. That's really exciting. But I think for me, the like the core essence of it that really grasped grasp me and pulls me into continuing this work is the essence of it, we're coming back to the body. And so trauma happens to the body. And oftentimes when we experience a trauma or frontal lobe goes offline, and we're just moving through our survival brain. And so to be able to talk about your story, and to be able to create meaning around it and put words to it can be really difficult to do. And when you come into traditional talk therapy, that's what is expected to do your expect to be able to talk about it and just talking about it can be read re traumatizing and re triggering. And then for those that are that are listening to it, it can be re traumatizing and triggering as well. And so I think the beauty of like somatic therapy, art based therapy nature based therapies is that it's moving from where from like It's meeting you where you're at. And allowing the body and welcoming the body back into the healing process rather than expecting you to be able to move from the frontal lobe right away. And it's this integrating in between, like, as you recognize, like, Ooh, I am safe. I am held here I am seen, heard and honored, that allows that frontal lobe to come back on. And then you can start creating those meanings and story and being able to speak that out. But it first starts with the body, and being able to notice what's happening in the body and reconnecting with our bodies. And especially with certain forms of trauma, like especially sexual trauma, there can be blockages from the body, because the body that the body, and brain is trying to keep you safe from having to experience that. And so as we open up and reconnect with our bodies, sometimes it can get harder before it gets easier. And that's actually some of the some of the reflections that we've had from different women that have gone through our programs is that after a surf therapy session, their dreams are just ignited, and at nighttime, are their memories of an experience that they didn't remember, start coming back into play. And so being able to have that space to recognize like the body, the body is holding a lot. And when we give access to it and start opening up, and acknowledging the wisdom that she's holding, and how she's protected us and kept us safe. It can, it's just amazing what can start flowing out. And the ocean gives that space to shake it out from like some of the somatic therapy tools is literally like a shake it out movement, where you're like shaking your hands, shaking your feet, shaking your whole body. And it's something that dogs and animals naturally do after they receive a stress hormone release. But in our human bodies, and cultures, we're told that we can't do that. And so we just store up all the stress release in our bodies. And that's where a lot of different diseases and disabilities can stem from is that stress stored up in the body. And we're like, I don't know why this is happening. Like there's, it's connected to our mental, our mental, our mental state, our emotional state. And so the ocean allows us to shake things up and move our bodies in ways that we don't allow ourselves to move back on land, to even EMDR therapy, which is that app rapid eye movement, and bilateral stimulation of the brain. And that's happening naturally, when we are surfing, we're paddling left and right, left and right, left and right that bilateral stimulation when we're scanning the horizon for waves are doing bilateral eye movements. And so there's so much that you're naturally doing in the ocean, that are therapeutic models and tools back in the office. But you're not having to force yourself to do it, your body is naturally doing it. And by naturally doing it, you're also creating this sustainability and you're experiencing joy while doing it, and connection with others while doing it. And so it's just really bringing so many of the things that science has been like, hey, this, this is what works. But doing it in a natural environment where a client can like they don't need me to continue surfing. Our goals with the surf therapy program is that they walk away with the skills to be able to continue accessing the ocean, whether it's through surfing or swimming, or boogie boarding, or stand up paddleboarding, whatever it is they have the tools that they need, and the safety skills that they need in order to continue engaging with the ocean and building the relationship with the ocean. And then they also have a community to continue doing it within and being being seen by. And so the goal is that, as a therapist, you're not needed because they've developed a sustainable surf practice for their mental health that goes way beyond you. And a lot of the women start teaching their daughters and their sons, how to access the ocean, and how to access, surfing and nature for their mental health. And so it's going from just that individual showing up for their own healing into the generations that come from them being healed, and into actively taking charge to heal the ocean themselves. Because more and more we have days where you can't get in the ocean because of the toxicity levels. And so this it sparks this, like the ocean healed me. And now like she's my medicine, I want to be able to continue accessing her I want generations that come from me to be able to continue going as accessing her. And so it creates this natural, reciprocal relationship that forms and that is the highest level of positive psychology, theory of change that you go from when you're experiencing depression or anxiety to say that is your reality. That is all that you see in yourself and then you go into the ocean you have one way that shows then you feel just a second of joy. You're like Oh, I haven't felt joy before because depression was all was my definition of self. But maybe if I like I can be depressed and I can feel a moment of joy. And then as you continue feeling that little moment of joy wave after wave after wave your brains like, oh my gosh, it's not just this one off thing. But this is actually something that's true about me. I struggle with depression, and I also experienced joy, and connection, and hope. And so the depression isn't all that you are. And then from that, as you continue experiencing it, you recognize this is something that's true about me. And it's something that I can offer that I can uniquely offer the world as well. And how can I show up in the world and express myself in the unique ways that only I can, that will make this world more beautiful. And so it's just, it's naturally happening. And you don't really have to do much. It's the I like to say like that Mother Ocean is my co facilitator, and she's really doing most of the work.
Sydney Williams 35:44
Yes, oh, okay. Man, I'm so there's so many good things to unpack here. And before we jump to the break, there is one, like correlation I want to draw. And that's the bilateral movement part of it. And also, what happens in the brain where trauma, like trauma happens to the body, what our brain is doing to move through survival, and then how finding words can be difficult. If I reflect back on my own experience, that is true for me too, in hiking and backpacking. Like, up until last year, I didn't have access to therapy, like clinical talk therapy, I did Better Help, whatever. But everything that I had done leading up to this chapter of my life was journaling or listening to music or reading self help books. And it wasn't until I spent time in the backcountry, one foot in front of the other right foot, left foot was my first mantra on my first backpacking trip because it was so dang hard. And it was just, I feel like the intensity of the hiking and backpacking that I was doing, especially when I first started and I had no training and my shoes didn't fit, right. And I wasn't prepared at all, except for the delusional confidence that I could complete a trail. It knocked some of that stuff loose. And you hear in yoga classes, that the issues are in your tissues and all that stuff. So I'm interested when we come back from the break, I'd love to jump into some of that. Drawing that correlation between the water and on land, because if it's possible for me to experience this right foot, left foot, if it's possible for the folks in your programs, and you and you as well, to experience this paddle, left paddle, right. I'm just so interested in another point of connection where even though we're doing different activities, we're experiencing the same benefits. So when we get back from the break, I want to jump back into that. And if you have a question for Natalie, join us, give us a call. We'd love to take your questions. If you've been through the program and you're listening and you want to just share some love for what you've experienced with the groundswell community. Give us a call. If you are curious about any of the things that we've talked about so far, let us know. And when we get back we'll talk about where some of these risks might come from, like what happens if a shark or a stingray comes at you, and we'll talk about how you can get involved in 2023 If this is something that you're interested in adding to your therapeutic practice. Don't go away. We'll be right back.
Announcer 38:18
Follow us on Twitter at voice America TRN and get the lowdown on guests you shows and your favorites. That's voice America trn Ready to find your Wellness in the Wilderness, and look no further than Hiking My Feelings. Through a combination of community and self discovery. Our programs are designed to give you the space and support to connect life starts. If you're looking to figure out who you are underneath the stories you've been given, and are ready to redesign the map of where you're headed with actionable steps and opportunities to dream big. We're here to walk alongside you. Whether you're a seasoned adventure enthusiast, or brand new to the healing power of nature. We've got your back. Visit hikingmyfeelings.org today to download our free trail thoughts worksheets, and learn more about Hiking My Feelings. Sawyer is more than an outdoor company. Every solar product you buy, contributes to our common humanity, bringing Sawyer water filtration systems to people in need all around the world. In just 2022 alone. 260,000 households in over 45 countries received clean drinking water through Sawyer filters. Over the past 10 years, we've teamed up with over 140 charities in 80 countries to provide long term sustainable relief, domestically, internationally and in disaster situations. Together, we're saving millions of lives. Thank you. Have you ever spoken unkind to yourself? Do you realize when you do, are you ready to make changes but find yourself completely paralyzed by the choices in front of you? We live in hyperconnected always on world and frankly, it's exhausting. Let's make time to disconnect from the distractions and reconnect with yourself. Hiking My Feelings exists to help people discover the healing power of nature. kickstart your healing journey and grab a copy of the book that started our movement, Hiking My Feelings, stepping into the healing power of nature, named one of Audible's best hiking audiobooks and available wherever books are sold. Visit hikingmyfeelings.org today to learn more. It's your world motivate, change, succeed. Voice America empowerment.com. You're listening to Wellness in the Wilderness with Sydney Williams? Have a question for Sydney and our guests. Join us on the show at 888-346-9141. That's 888-346-9141 Now back to the show with Sydney.
Sydney Williams 41:05
Welcome back to Wellness in the Wilderness. I'm your host Sydney Williams and I'm chatting with Natalie Small founder of the Groundswell Community Project about surf therapy. What is it? How does it benefit our bodies, minds and spirits? How can we create that reciprocal relationship with the ocean or in our case with the lands that we hike and travel upon and before the break we were talking about all the good things about how the science of spending time in the ocean can contribute to therapeutic results in natural settings. And before we jump into our next series of questions. Natalie, one of the things that we get a lot at our Hiking My Feelings events is like that people will sign up. And there are some questions about like, do I have to tell my story? Or can I just sit and talk or sit and walk and listen? But more than everything, especially if we're in like the Sierras, people are like, Okay, so tell me about bears. Tell me about the other predators that could rip my face off in the context of surf therapy and assessing the risks involved with spending time in the ocean? What is it like? Are we are we worried about sharks snatching us off our boards? Is that Is there a way that we educate that relates that back to similar to how you were speaking about the waves are an opportunity? If if we look at those as like little traumas that are coming towards us? How do we want to deal with it? How do you frame the natural risks of spending time in the ocean for the people that participate in your programs?
Natalie Small 42:38
Yeah, I mean, sharks are real Stingrays are real, especially in southern California. And we I like to frame it as we're, we're going into their home. And so anytime we're going into someone else's home, someone else's space, it's a gift. And we need to enter in with respect. And so knowing from a trauma lens, like knowing like, what are the tools that I have within me and around me to support myself to go into this home? And from knowing what I know, and having the community that supports me here? Like, is it is it a good choice to go in, there's days where we don't go in because the we're looking at the waves and those and the surf report and the wind or the toxicity level, the ocean or there has just been a recent shark sighting. And we decide is this a is this the opportunity that I want to be able to go in? And when I can't go in what comes up within me? And how do I work with that and learn from that versus just constantly charging at it no matter what, or being able to take that moment to listen, and make a decision. And everything's an opportunity to kind of learn and listen and experience it.
Sydney Williams 43:50
Because I'll tell you, there's been a couple times I haven't run into a bear yet, like a grizzly bear. Like we saw a black bear and Sequoia this summer, one of our retreats it was like, really magical. But both times that I've done either day hikes or backpacking through Grand Teton National Park, we come up on the butt of a moose. And there is not a time or space outside of my career in skydiving in nature, where other than when I'm having an animal encounter where I am so acutely aware of how small I am, how insignificant I am in the grand scheme of things and how present I feel in my body and how all of my senses are heightened when I'm creating space for a bull to pass on the trail. Do you have you had a similar encounter like that with wildlife in the ocean?
Natalie Small 44:38
I mean, I think unfortunately, a lot of the ocean spaces are pretty populated by humans that we're going into. And so a lot of animals don't really want to be in them. But Stingrays are one that had that we've had encounters with and we teach we teach the stingray shuffle in order To help people acknowledge, like, Hey, we're walking into their space. Um, so we give people the tools to be able to engage in ways that will hopefully not get them stung. But we did have, we had one over, I'm knocking, whether they say this, we've had one person that got stung by a thing, or over the last six years. And, and it was that experience of like, okay, I just had my, like, my full fear, body brain just kicked in, I went into panic or pain, or whatever the thing was, and being able to take that experience, and come back to the body. And so by taking the opposite, and that's oftentimes what turns an experience into a traumatic experience versus a resiliency building experience is not having the time, the space, to be heard, seen and honored in it, and to process it, and move through it. And so by having our team trained up and like, okay, so like a traumatic experience happened, and experience happened, and let's see how we can learn from it and grow from it, and have it be fully experienced. So that way, we can still come back into the ocean and not have this experience of like, because that happens, I'm never getting in the ocean ever again. But because this happened now, I have even more respect for stingrays. And the and the individual that had that happen. Like she came back and got back in the water the next week, and was able to like it was an empowering process of being able to overcome something that was really painful, and learn from it and grow from it and see how can you he was able to come around her and support her in it. And so I oftentimes we try in the therapy world, it's like, oh, we want to make sure that nothing bad ever happens. And we're are currently trying to like helicopter, hover, protect. But nature provides this, the sense of chaos. That's important, because we live in a world that is chaotic, and we need to learn how to be in those spaces. And what do we have control over? When we are in those chaotic spaces is our own emotional regulation and our bodies and how we want and who we want to welcome in and connect with in order to, to turn it from a traumatic experience into a resiliency building experience.
Sydney Williams 47:10
I just love that so much. And I think that it's such a beautiful landscape to also take a moment to pause and self reflect on how far people have come from. If this was a trauma that I experienced, however, many years ago, how did I respond then versus the tools that I have now, what a beautiful opportunity to put those tools into practice and to recognize the growth. I love that so much. So, we do have one caller, Tom from Sycamore, Illinois, I'd love to hear what you have to say and answer any questions you may have for me or Natalie.
Tom 47:48
Hi, Natalie, in Sydney, Sydney, thank you very much for taking my call. Natalie, I'm very intrigued in this presence, not process. Am I saying that? Correct?
Natalie Small 47:59
Yeah, exactly. presencing over processing.
Tom 48:02
Yeah, that I can come to the program and not have to talk for the entire program, and then still maybe get something out of it and still be benefited. And all that I mean, as a nonverbal counselee I guess I would say that, that intrigues me and really sets me up for success, knowing that I don't have to do all of the speaking and all the talking and all that that's just such a great concept, but I've never heard it before. I'm wondering how you came up with that.
Natalie Small 48:31
Um, I mean, it's been, I have had so many amazing mentors, and one of them would even be my Grandmother, she was really great at being rather than doing her older years, and just seeing how she was able to be and just witness and experience things versus needing to necessarily talk about them. And my time with her was a lot of just sitting and observing and being together and feeling so connected, and so present. And recognizing that oftentimes words get in the way of actually being present and having the that very present in this moment experience. And so I think, from my Grandmother to Garcia, Ella Bodoni was my mentor and supervisor in Argentina. And she was the President of the Experiential Arts Therapy Association for Latin America. And she was really who turned me back on to therapy I'd given up being a practitioner and the talk therapy world and she opened my eyes up to welcoming the body back into the healing process. And we would have entire weekend long workshops, where it was there wasn't a lot of actual verbal communication in between participants, because everybody was in an experience together. And so we didn't need to necessarily use words to talk about it. But just by going through the experience together, I didn't know their names. I didn't know their professions or their backgrounds or their trauma stories. But an intense deep bond was formed and connection was formed. And so I think just for me, they're experiencing it. And my Grandmother.
Sydney Williams 50:12
Oh, thank you, Natalie. And thank you, Tom, for your question. And thanks for listening. We appreciate you tuning in. Natalie, quick tip for our listeners, this is something that I've been thinking about doing for the first three episodes, but I never got around to because the conversations were just so great that I completely forgot. I kind of blacked out like you did on your first serving, surfing experience. Let's go. Let's do a quick tip for the listeners. How can folks find their version of wellness in the wilderness? That is Mother Ocean, if you're just going to the beach for a day, or you aren't necessarily a surfer? What are some of the ways that people can tap into that healing power?
Natalie Small 50:48
Yeah, I mean, I think this is when, right before you touched in on that importance of, of, like, all the things that we've we've had experiences that have been traumatic in our lives, and how we would respond to them now differently than we would have been. And there's a practice by Rick, Rick Hansen called HEAL. And it's an acronym, it's ages have an experience, he focuses on negative experiences. But I'm like having an experience, whether it's positive or negative, you can name it what you want to, and then you E enrich it, A, absorb it, and L link it. And you can do that. And that's a practice that we do after every single way we catch. But you could even do that, after seeing a beautiful tree, or coming in contact with the butt of a moose. Basically have an experience. And then afterwards, the importance of taking that moment to pause. And allow yourself just to absorb it noticing what you're experiencing in your body. What are you experiencing in your heart? What are you experiencing in your mind? And then taking time to share that with somebody else? So that community aspect, and then linking it coming up? Like thinking like, so what does this mean about me? What does this mean about the world around me? And how does this shift or alter my and how do I, like fully express myself in the world because of this experience that I just had. And that can be it's a way to help experiences sink in to the brain and help build those neurological pathways deeper of resiliency. And so that's a practice that we do after every single wave. And you could do that after every single hike, or every single moose that you come into.
Sydney Williams 52:29
Yes. All right. So before we wrap up the show, where can people connect with you? And what is one thing that you're most excited about for Groundswell in 2023?
Natalie Small 52:40
Yeah, um, so we have our website, groundswell community.org and on Instagram as well, groundswell community project. And also, you can email me Natalie at groundswellcommunity.org as well, I am wintering this month. And so I'm not on my email, we try to work according to the seasons as much as possible and really honor those different seasonal shifts that happen. And so we're, I'm wintering, I'm hibernating right now. But the thing that I'm really looking forward to for 2023 is actually something that you're doing with with your community as well is having that community platform and that space, we've shifted away from social medias because of the mental health barriers that they provide, and can and can do, and trying but still trying to find like, how can we hold community for connection. And so looking at setting up an online platform where those who are either interested in learning more about sort of therapy to become a provider themselves, to those who are in surf therapy, to receive and to, like, be be in it and experience it, for those who are just looking for community and support through nature and their bodies and community to continue that work. And so I'm really looking forward to getting that platform set up and launching it in January, to really connect our global community together and to dive deeper into that, that self love and that sea love, and sisterhood.
Sydney Williams 54:10
I love it. It's all about All right. Well, everybody, be sure you follow them on social media and visit the website. Thank you, Natalie, for joining us on this episode of Wellness in the Wilderness and for next week. It's just me. We've had four incredible conversations with really resilient, powerful women who have found their version of wellness in the wilderness through various activities like hiking, bikepacking, backpacking, paddling, kayaking, and now surfing. Next week, I'm excited to share a bit of my story why I gave up a cushy life to live in a van while we build our programs or Hiking My Feelings and what we have coming up for 2023. I'm looking forward to taking your calls. So if you've been through one of our programs, and you want to share some stories, call in if you're curious call in. And if you're too shy to call in and you can always ask us questions via DM on Instagram. Send us an email or join the conversation on the Hiking My Feelings Family Network. Thank you for joining Joining us for this week's dose of Wellness in the Wilderness. I hope this conversation was a breath of fresh air, and I look forward to connecting with you next Tuesday. Until next week, take care of yourself, take care of each other. Dream big and be kind. We'll see you next week.
Announcer 55:17
Thanks for joining us on this week's show. We hope this episode has been a breath of fresh air for you and has inspired you to find your wellness in the wilderness. We will reconnect with nature and new again next week. Since 1984, Sawyer has existed to support your wildest adventures. Learn about their advanced insect repellents and family of technical Lightweight Water filters at sawyer.com