E2: When a “Phase” Turns into a Career + Community with Anna Levesque
Have you ever made a decision so crystal clear that it was almost alarming? What is it in those moments where we're defying expectations that keeps us moving forward in the direction of our dreams, despite the criticism and doubt?
For Anna Levesque of Mind Body Paddle, the decision was to get a summer job at a whitewater rafting company when she was in college. Her parents dubbed this choice as a "phase" and despite their best intentions for how she'd live her life, Anna found her way to the water and never looked back. Now living the life of her dreams, these waters weren't always calm. Even with all of her success on the competitive kayak circuit, she struggled with self-doubt and lack of confidence.
Like many elite athletes, she would put a lot of pressure on herself to perform and when she didn’t live up to her own exceptionally high expectations, she would feel like a total failure. The self-doubt didn’t help her confidence paddling difficult Class V whitewater with mostly male colleagues. She loved kayaking and yet she would often come away from those days feeling disempowered.
She realized after connecting with other pro female boaters at the time that she wasn’t the only one. It occurred to her that female paddling stories weren’t being told in the whitewater kayaking world and there were no resources specifically for women, so she produced the first whitewater kayak instructional DVD for women and called it Girls at Play. She launched a video tour across the US and Canada to offer low-cost, community based kayak classes for women. Even still, vulnerability and terror showed up at the premiere of Girls at Play only to receive a standing ovation from respected peers.
ABOUT OUR GUEST:
Anna Levesque is a distinguished leader in the outdoor industry for white water kayak instruction. What differentiates Anna is her approach to physical and mental wellbeing and how this is tied to success on the water and in life. She leads, inspires and coaches her clients on the self leadership required to live a healthy, confident and adventurous life, and is a sought after speaker and facilitator for empowering leaders in the outdoor industry.
Among her many accomplishments and accolades, Anna was named one of the most inspirational paddlers alive by Canoe and Kayak magazine, voted the most inspirational outdoors person by Blue Ridge Outdoors Magazine, and is the author of the book Yoga for Paddling. She has paddled, taught and competed on the international stage for close to 30 years, and is passionate about empowering her clients with courage and confidence through her company Mind Body Paddle.
IN THIS EPISODE:
How did Anna get into paddling?
Did she experience any resistance along the way?
In a male dominated sport, what kinds of inequities was she witnessing and experiencing as a woman?
Were there any women in the sport she could look up to and talk to about this?
Was there a moment where you realized the inequities were something you could work to fix?
How did the Girls at Play DVD and Tour ladder up to what she’s doing today with Mind Body Paddle?
Anna’s advice for any woman who wants to get into paddling or may already be in the sport and experiencing inequities
CONNECT WITH ANNA:
Mind Body Paddle - be sure to check out the available webinars and coaching programs!
LISTEN HERE:
SHOW SPONSORS:
SHOW TRANSCRIPT:
Please note, we use Otter.ai to transcribe episodes and while the technology is impressive, it’s not completely accurate. Please excuse any missed words, nonsensical sentences, and missed interpretations of foreign language below:
Announcer 00:00
Since 1984, sell your has existed to support your wildest adventures. Learn about their advanced insect repellents and family of technical Lightweight Water filters at sawyer.com. Welcome to Wellness in the Wilderness. Come with us on the trail of life as we inspire you to take a step outdoors to disconnect from the distractions and reconnect with yourself. Sydney Williams in our guests will motivate you to get active and get well. Now, here is Sydney.
Sydney Williams 00:37
All right, everybody, welcome to Wellness in the Wilderness. I'm your host Sydney Williams, author and founder of Hiking My Feelings and today I am broadcasting live from the ancestral lands of the Kumeyaay People now known as Julian California. Whether you're an experienced outdoor enthusiast or brand new to the healing power of nature, we hope that these conversations will inspire you to think differently about your relationship to nature, and equip you with the tools, rituals and knowledge to help you bring your best self to life, love and work. At the very least, we hope that you'll take this time each week to do something kind for yourself while you listen, and that these conversations feel like a breath of fresh air. Are you loving the music for the show as much as I am because we are super grateful to be able to use this unreleased track from our buddy Alific featuring Man of the Forests on violin, so be sure to check out both of them on Spotify and stay tuned for Alific's upcoming album in 2023. Now about our guests today, Anna Levesque a distinguished leader in the outdoor industry for whitewater kayak instruction. What differentiates Anna is her approach to physical and mental well being and how this is tied to success and on the water and in life. She leads inspires and coaches her clients on the self leadership required to live a healthy, confident and adventurous life and as sought after, is a sought after speaker and facilitator for empowering leaders in the outdoor industry. Among her many accomplishments and accolades Anna was named one of the most inspirational paddlers alive by canoe and kayak magazine, voted the most inspirational outdoors person by Blue Ridge Outdoors magazine and is the author of the book yoga for paddling. She has paddled, taught and competed on the international stage for close to 30 years, and is passionate about empowering her clients with courage and confidence through her company, Mind Body Paddle. Today, we're going to be chatting about how a decision she made in college wasn't just a phase. In fact, it led to the life of her dreams, a career and a community. Welcome to the show, Anna.
Anna Clevesque 02:29
Thanks, Sydney. It's great to be here. I'm excited. Yes, I'm so glad you're here. So let's jump right into it. You've been paddling for close to 30 years. And before we get into what you do today, let's take a little trip down memory lane. How did you get started with paddling? So I got started when I was a sophomore in college, and I was looking for a summer job. And I was not outdoorsy at all at the time. And I was walking around my hometown I grew up in between Ottawa and Montreal in Canada. I was at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. So I was home for the summer. And I was looking for regular I don't know office summer jobs. So I was dressed, quote unquote, professionally, and I wasn't having any luck. So I decided to go knock on the door of a local whitewater rafting company. And knowing what I know now about the outdoor industry, I'm sure they were questioning like who is this girl and dressed up as a professional, you know, wanting to wanting a summer job. And they told me that there were no there was no availability to be a rough guide. That was what I was really interested in. I wasn't outdoorsy, but I did grow up alpine ski racing, and I did like cycling. And so they told me Well, we don't have a job for you in guiding but you can work in the kitchen. And I don't know, it was just a I don't know it just in the moment, something inside myself was like, Sure I'll work in the kitchen, the most unglamorous job. Right? And that's when I started working in the kitchen, I was introduced to a whole new world to me, for me, it was a whole new world this this world of folks who prioritize joy, who prioritized doing what they love to prioritize being in nature and community. Instead of I don't know. Yeah, instead of what I grew up with, which was go to college, get an education, get a job, buy a house, have a car, have a family, etc, etc. And it really blew my mind. So I fell in love.
Sydney Williams 04:54
I love that and I think that there's already a lesson is like when you know what you want and You're interested in it. Sometimes you got to take the position that might not have been your first choice, but get your foot in the door. So good on you. I love that. One of the things that you said that really stuck out to me was, it sounds like you very much like myself, we're kind of given an outline a driveway, a runway, a river, if you will, now that we're in paddle sports, of what life should look like, so, you're in college, summer job. You love it. What did your parents think?
Anna Clevesque 05:31
They were unsure at first. And they totally were like, okay, for sure. Summer Job. Nope, you know, no worries. I was, you know, content and I wasn't getting into trouble. So, you know, and I was being introduced to, you know, the first time I went whitewater rafting, I was like, This is amazing. So I was really happy. And, you know, ultimately, my parents do, they want me to be happy. The resistance didn't come. When it was my first summer job. It was when it was the second summer job. And then when I said, You know what, instead of pursuing law school, I want you all to drop me off at a rafting company in West Virginia after graduation, so I can become a full time raft guide.
Sydney Williams 06:16
I I love this so much. When I went skydiving for the first time in 2005, I landed and I was like, I'm gonna be an instructor someday. And my parents were like, you're going into college? And I was like, oh, okay, so second, third. Now they're dropping you off. Um, one of the things that is really interesting to me about this, because now we know this was a summer job, your parents thought this might be a phase, you're like, Nope, I need you to drop me off at a rafting company. You've been paddling for 30, close to 30 years now. So what inspired you to keep going What was it about that first summer that led to the next summer that led to you deciding that pre law law school was not for you, on the waters where you want to be walk me through that.
Anna Clevesque 07:01
Like I said, the first time I went whitewater rafting, there was it's hard to describe, right, it's hard to put into words, there was such a joy that emanated and a connection. And as a child, I always loved going for walks in the woods. I always loved being in nature, even just being outside and you know, our backyard. And then being on the river was so joyful, and powerful, the rivers so powerful, I just was drawn to it very strong draw. And then again, the community was full of joy, you know, there was a lot of joy and people feeling fulfilled, and people having agency over what was important to them in life. And as opposed to people being stuck in jobs that they can't stand and complaining, and not feeling like they have agency. And that's what really drew me, you know, the, that agency of guess their life is full of possibility. And opportunity. If I look outside of my box, like you said that, you know, that river, that path that was laid out for you, I look outside of that there's so much more. And that was really inspiring and motivating to me. So that's what, that's what kept me going. And then I was able to travel around the world raft guiding, you know, eventually, and meeting new people. And I think one of the things I studied abroad in Chile and South America, my senior year in college, and that was after I'd been working at the rafting company and in Quebec, and because the, the paddle sports world is small, I got connected with a Chilean raft guide. And he introduced me to rivers and a whole new community in Chile, that was connected by the love of the river. And I remember being out in southern Chile in the beautiful night sky, in a hot springs just in wonderment of my life. Right and the possibility of where this could could go.
Sydney Williams 09:10
I love that sense of possibility. And I think that that's such a pivotal point. And I know that not everybody is fortunate enough to have that mindset or experience that that opportunity to make a decision from a place of possibility. And I love what you're saying about joy being prioritized and community being prioritized leading up to this career in Whitewater was that an area that was lacking? Or was that an area that you were looking just to find more of? Because now you know that there's more of it to be had?
Anna Clevesque 09:44
The joy you mean, what are you talking about the joy? Can you rephrase that question for him? Yeah,
Sydney Williams 09:51
yeah, for sure. So for the joy and the community part that really drew you into the whitewater community, was that a facet of your life that you had in place? And you just wanted more of it, or was that lacking? And this was kind of filling that need?
Anna Clevesque 10:04
Yeah, that's a great question. I think I felt like I could show up. This is gonna sound contradictory maybe for where this conversation is going. But I did feel that at a basic level, I could show up just as I was in the whitewater community, and find that joy, versus having to look a certain a certain way or act a certain way. In the beginning, I definitely felt so I had communities. And yet, I always felt that I didn't maybe fully belong. But I felt like I belonged in the whitewater community. Right from the start.
Sydney Williams 10:49
It sounds like it's almost like once you got out of the clothes that weren't for you and getting all dressed up and going out or industry jobs. It sounds like once you turn off the clothes literally and like properly the mask of a lady that's like trying to fit her way into a box. She's not meant to fit into that you could like literally metaphorically let your hair down. Yes.
Anna Clevesque 11:10
Yes. And what's funny as I can remember what I was wearing, going into that in walking into the rafting company, like really nice pants heels. A nice shirt. And and the folks who were interviewing me were in Patagonia river shorts and T shirts, you know,
Sydney Williams 11:27
you're like, I'm way overdressed. But also, I found my people. And I don't normally wear nice clothes. Like I'd be much more comfortable in the whitewater shorts. Thank you, right. Yeah, yeah. Oh, my gosh, I love that. And I'm recognizing there's a lot of synchronicities and parallels between how I got into skydiving back in the day. And the emotions that that gave me like I was, I was in the thick of my, well, the beginning of the thick of my career. But skydiving for me was like that go into the drop zone on the weekends, which was like, I don't have to wear business casual, I don't have to straighten my hair like it just really, there. I think there's something really special. And maybe that's a that is a good question. Is it? Was there something about it? Where is there a level of trust that you start to establish with your people on the water that makes those bonds and that community that much stronger on a more expedited timeframe than perhaps normal friendships and relationships?
Anna Clevesque 12:23
I think so. Definitely. Because you're, you're in community on the river. And you're facing challenges together. And you've got to work as a team. And so regardless of, you know, whatever you think of that person, or whatever they said to you, that maybe made you mad earlier, like you're a team on the river, right, and you're all getting down together and need to work together. So you set that aside. And I think that allows, allows us to see different facets of people, and also accept people fully, at least in those moments where we know we have to work together.
Sydney Williams 13:08
I would agree with that. 100%. And something that you said earlier, that I think is pretty interesting is at first you're like, oh, you know, like I feel like I can be myself. And then what happened because it sounds like just you know, representation matters. And from what I've seen the limited exposure that I have to the whitewater world. There's a lot of dudes out there. So what's the like gender split? Is this a mostly male dominated sport?
Anna Clevesque 13:35
Yes, whitewater kayaking is a male dominated sport. And it has been since it began, I would say there's a lot more female participation now, which is fantastic. So I love your question. So and then I started getting called the kitchen wench. That was my nickname that the guides called me. Right, because I worked in the kitchen. They none of them believed that I would ever get into paddling. Like I said, I wasn't that outdoorsy. But I was athletic. And I started begging people to teach me how to kayak. And you know, they didn't none of them really gave me the time of day, except the at that rafting company. And this was exceptional. The head of the of Kayak school was a was a a woman who encouraged me to kayak and allowed me to shadow her classes on my days off. So on the one hand, a lot of the guys what I've experienced is the guys were calling the kitchen wench and laughing about it, and they weren't really giving me the time of day to help me learn. And this amazing, powerful woman was like, Yes, let's go, you know, and she pushed me to have agency you know, she was like, yeah, get your stuff together. You can come with me, but you're gonna help and you know, all that good stuff was very empowering.
Sydney Williams 14:58
Oh, I love that so much. So Oh, it sounds like there might be some inequities in the sport at some point in time. I mean, clearly, we're gonna get to what you guys are what you're up to these days in the next couple of segments, but what were some of the inequities you were seeing? And like, when did you know that this is something that you had to do something about
Anna Clevesque 15:19
being the biggest inequity, so this is why I said it was, it was a little bit of a contradiction earlier when I said I could show up as myself. Because then at one point, I realized that I could show up as myself as long as I molded to what the guys accepted in terms of being on the river. And what they accepted is their version of courage and brave, and being a good paddler, which did not include showing emotion, or talking about your nerves, or being nervous, like being nervous was not acceptable. And, and crying or showing any type of emotion on the river was definitely not acceptable. It definitely meant that you shouldn't be out there. And I remember being in a competition it was on the Russell fork in in Kentucky, and it was a race on is a class four River and at that time, it was a segmented competition. There were different facets to it. And we were paddling down to where the competition started, and I got stuck in a hole, which means I got recirculated in a feature. I ended up swimming out of my kayak. I was so mad. I paddled to shore like I got back in, got my stuff together, got over to shore, dragged my kayak up into the woods and bawled my eyes out for 10 minutes just by myself because I knew I couldn't show any emotion. And then I came back down to shore got in my boat after I felt complete with my, you know, emotional, expressing my emotion. And I actually won the next segment of the competition. And that's when I realized, you know what, emotion is not related to your performance. Right?
Sydney Williams 17:12
Oh my gosh, I love it so much. I'm sorry. Did you just say that cry makes you win? Yes, I did. Alright, so before we jumped to break, we have been talking with Anna Levesque, from Mind Body paddle about how she got into paddling. What led to this amazing, almost 30 year career she's had, and it sounds like a couple of great things happened. One she found a community that prioritize joy, love their connection to nature, and the community itself. And with these inequities and with crying equal winning when we get back, we're gonna talk about what Anna did to bring that inequity to life and flip it on its head and empower 1000s of women on and off the water. We'll be right back.
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Announcer 20:29
You're listening to wellness in the wilderness with Sydney Williams? Have a question for Sydney and her guests. Join us on the show at 888-346-9141. That's 888-346-9141. Now back to the show was Sydney.
Sydney Williams 20:47
Welcome back to Wellness in the Wilderness. I'm still Sydney Williams and I'm here with Anna from Mind Body Paddle. And before the break, we were talking about some of the inequities, which she was seeing in the sport, and how she went on to win the next segment of a race after she cried in the woods to get her feelings out of her body. So Anna, let's jump right back in. What were some of the inequities you were seeing for yourself? Like when you came back and you won that race? Was there any discussion? Did you tell people that you cried like what happened after that that led you to start bridging these gaps and start creating more equity for women and Whitewater?
Anna Clevesque 21:27
Yeah, so I did start having conversations with other with my colleagues, pro female kayakers? And what's interesting is, to your question, I didn't talk about what happened at the race, you know, with other people at the race. I kept that to myself, because, you know, at the time, it felt embarrassing, even though now I'm like, that's super cool. And so I started having conversations asking, you know, asking in private, other female paddlers, you know, do you ever get emotional on the river? What does that feel like? And honestly, it had come up before also in conversation. And the biggest thread was that a lot of women felt like, they couldn't show up just as they are that they had to keep up. Some, I remember one of my friends had heard, if you have to scout which means looking at a rapid more than five seconds, then you shouldn't be paddling it, which is really ridiculous. You know, and things like that. Or if you're too emotional, you shouldn't be on the water. Or I remember being told when I was running a really difficult river with a group and I was the only female. The they said, Look, if you're not going to run a rapid and we are you need to be at the bottom by the time we're done, because we don't want to wait for you. And so can you imagine getting on a really challenging river that you know has consequences, high consequences, you can get really hurt or, or worse. And your, your instead of being supported and coached in an positive confidence building way, you're being told you better keep up, because we don't have to deal want to have to deal with you. And, you know, my confidence would start spiraling. And. And then of course, when my confidence would start spiraling. Now it's funny because I went in at the race, I said, when I was able to fully let out my emotions, then I could have my confidence. But when you're not, when I felt I wasn't able to express my emotions, and I had to keep up and there was so much pressure, my confidence started spiraling and then my performance would start spiraling. And that was just a vicious circle. And I you know, I wasn't the only only woman who is experiencing this type of pressure. And of course, some women are have, you know, everyone's different. And so some folks are able to, you know, deal with that better than others. But for me, it was really hard. It did not empower me to perform at my best. And that's when I, you know, I or when another conversation I had one friend told me that yes, she she gets emotional, but she makes sure she would make sure that the guys she'd let the guys paddle around the corner and then let it out and then pedal really fast to get back to them. So they wouldn't notice. And that's an inequity because you have people who are have so much pressure and they're being held to a different standard. And there's no one is trying to understand where they're coming from.
Sydney Williams 24:51
This brings up a lot of questions for me so let's let's do this and this this might be more of like a rapid fire kind of situation here. But first things first. Is there a standard I Is program for training to learn how to kayak competitively?
Anna Clevesque 25:04
No, no, it's And when I'm talking about kayaking on harder rivers, that's not necess. There is extreme racing. Definitely. There's a few big extreme races in the US. But no, it's it's such a new sport. Really, you know, it started in the late 70s People in the 70s and 80s. Were still making their own whitewater kayaks. So it's still relatively new. And so I would, I would say no, and there aren't, you know, coaches, in freestyle kayaking, they're starting to be coaches now. And they're starting to be this really great community of competitors that are coming together to empower each other. And that's really wonderful to see.
Sydney Williams 25:47
That sounds great and terrible, at the same time, great that they're empowering each other terrible that there's not a standardized program. Okay, so my next curiosity about this is, at any point when you were being coached, were you taught about mindset stuff, and was your coach, female or male? Or was it a split between the over the course of your career?
Anna Clevesque 26:07
Oh, yeah, I was never coached, I never had a coach. And I'm very clear that that would have been very helpful for me, which is why I have a coach now. And why I coach people. So when I was competing, again, it was very new. And the paradigm at the time again, so whitewater kayaking is a legacy sport, meaning, it's easy to get into when you know, someone who already does it a family member or a friend, friends of the family, or you have a, you know, you go out and seek out a job like I did in the industry, and you learn that way. And so at the time, a lot of I mean, I'm just gonna be honest, a lot of the female competitors are being coached by their partners, by their boyfriends or husbands. And that is, and, and so actually, what's interesting is my boyfriend at the time, who is now my husband. I wanted that from him. But he was not interested. And that was, you know, it was hard on on our relationship. And that is just a terrible paradigm. Right, again, disempowering. That it was, that was the culture and I, and there was no one, two step in no coaches really available that I knew of anyways, at the time,
Sydney Williams 27:31
man, that is wild. Because I feel like I think about how you've had such a long career, I just assumed this has been happening for forever. So Newsflash, everybody listening. Kayaking is a new thing, like it's been around, but to compete to be at this level, to where mindset, what you're what you're saying about difficulty of the water and the moves that you have to make and the pressures that are already there. Like if you're already being expected to hurry up and get there, let alone like the physical stamina required to do this safely and successfully. If you're slowing down, so you can experience the emotions and allow them to pass and then paddling really fast. So the guys don't know that you were just having an emotional experience. That it that's gonna be hard to manage from a physical stamina standpoint, too. I got to think.
Anna Clevesque 28:18
Yeah, definitely. And I want to, I want to so there's many different disciplines in cut and whitewater kayaking. So at the Olympic level, there's slalom kayaking, and that is very standardized, and there's coaching. And that's not the type of competition I was doing. I was doing the extreme racing, which is we're racing over waterfalls, and difficult rapids, and freestyle kayaking, which is in a feature, it's like surfing, and you have to do a routine and it's being judged. And then you go out in between the competitions, and you're paddling, right for fun. And a lot of this pressure was coming from when we were out with groups paddling for fun as well. So yeah, it's, I just wanted to make that distinction. Oh, I probably went listening.
Sydney Williams 29:08
Yeah. And it's interesting that the pressures coming not just in a competitive landscape, but also when you're just out there having fun. So you know, it's just pressure, pressure on pressure. So you had mentioned before the break that there was a woman who allowed you to shadow and that kind of got you in there, and she gave you the agency to like, decide what you wanted to do in the sport and kind of helped you move your way through it. And at the beginning of this segment, you were talking about speaking with other pro kayakers, other women that had experienced similar things? Is there anybody that you want to shout out? That was someone that you could look up to somebody who gave you guidance on how to navigate these inequities inequity successfully at the time?
Anna Clevesque 29:47
Oh, yes, her name is Buffy Berge, and I still get to paddle with her. Not as often she lives here in Asheville as well. And I was in Ecuador paddling a A challenging river. And I hadn't paddled with her much before. But she was one of my, you know, idols because she was known for and she still is known for being an amazing paddle or paddling hard stuff. And on that river, I was, I was newer to paddling. And so I was flipped, I flipped over several times. And my habit pattern is to be very hard on myself. I'm sure there are women out there and maybe isolate Sydney. Yeah, so I was, I pulled over into an into an eddy, and I was having a little emotion. And Buffy came in, and I said, oh, boy, I'm so embarrassed, and she was so great. She said, You know what, I think you're doing great. And it's really important that you want to start focusing on the things you're doing well, because you're doing a lot of things well, today, and that has always stuck with me, this was 20 some years ago. And you know, that just goes to show the power of having someone that will take the time to, you know, to stop with you, and give you a little pep talk. And, and you know, expecting so here's my plug for coaching, right expecting a loved one or a friend, or someone you don't know that, well, to do that for you. Yes, you'll have those moments where that will happen. And it will be awesome. That is a to get that accountability in that, that coaching more often and on a, you know, consistent basis. It's worth hiring someone you know, it's why I have a coach. And so that's my plug for coaching.
Sydney Williams 31:45
Oh, 100% I mean, like my skill set in skydiving skyrocketed. The second I started coaching my coaches, my Well, my husband was my instructor, and then we ended up well, he wasn't my husband at the time I met my husband because he was my instructor. But yeah, I mean, coaching is is the way to go. And I think on and off the water. That's the case like that accountability is like, it's worth the investment in yourself to have that because that is what a coach is there for. And we can't rely on the people we love and our friends and family on and off the water on and off the trail in and out of the sky, whatever you're saying word is to do that for us. And when we when we have those expectations, and people don't meet it that can harbor resentment. And that leads to content and that contempt and then everything just kind of spirals from there. So I appreciate you calling that out specifically about coaching because it is so so valuable. One of the questions that I have to ask, it sounds like there's there might have been several moments or lots of different inequities, or you're witnessing these things and experiencing this discrimination, criticism, name calling whatever over the course of a period of time. Was there a specific instance? Or a special moment where you were like, This? Is it? I've had enough? How can I fix this?
Anna Clevesque 33:05
Yeah, I had, you know, I was really having these conversations. And after the I don't know, dozens of conversations, I was like, I'm not the only one and this this isn't right that no one talks about this, what I would call the female experience in paddling. Now I understand I just want to put it out there, I realized that my experience is not all women's experience. At the time, though there was the common thread going on of things I've already talked about in this interview. And so I actually reached out to a friend of mine who at the time was producing instructional DVDs for whitewater kayaking. And I went to him, he was a friend and asked him, I said, What do you think of this idea? And I thought I was gonna get a lot of resistance, but he was actually very supportive. And he said, Well, if you can find the videographer and the you know, the sponsorship money, the funding to put it together, we'd be happy to help you publish and distribute. And so then I called up a videographer editor that I knew who was who had a lot of experience in the industry. And we got to sit down actually by the river, which was really sweet. And I told him my idea, I want to make an instructional DVD for women, I want to use it to put the female experience or these some of these stories out into the world and I want to make a segment that's titled it's okay to cry on the river. And again, I thought that he he would, you know, put up a lot of resistance but, but he didn't and he was really excited about it even and then the funding all fell into place. And Sydney, you might have had some experiences like this in your life where everything just falls into place so easily. I mean, you have to put effort I had to work for it. But you I just knew this is this was my calling this, this is great. You know, this is I'm going to produce this instructional DVD for women. I mean, I'm going to have women tell their stories, and I'm going to highlight strong female paddlers and paddling skills, I'm going to put it out there. So that's what I that was my first step to doing something about it.
Sydney Williams 35:35
I love that so much. And yes, my husband and I and our good friends Taylor and Thor who run a nonprofit called do good shit. They we call that the jet stream when you get into it. And it's just like, Yeah, you got to keep taking steps, you got to keep putting that paddle in the water, you got to keep you know, whatever your metaphor is for life. But once you get in it, and things start clicking, it is the ride of a lifetime. And I, I I have in the past I've tried to like cling to that because I know that it's fleeting, and I know it comes and goes. But these days, I just welcome it with like such a big warm hug. I'm like, Oh, I'm back in the jet stream. It feels so good to be here. So I'm really glad that you brought that up because that's a huge, huge part of finding that lane and knowing that you're moving in the right direction. So we've talked about how you have some really awesome women in your life. Shout out to Buffy Berge for Poland Anna side, giving her that reassurance that she needed to keep things going. And when we get back from the break. I am just so interested to hear about mind body paddle and everything you're doing to uplift women in the sport bring balance and confidence on and off the water. So if anybody listening has questions for Anna. On this next break, give us a call at 866-346-9141 and we'll take your live calls after the break. We'll be right back
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Announcer 39:33
You're listening to Wellness in the Wilderness with Sydney Williams. Have a question for Sydney and our guests. Join us on the show at 888-346-9141 That's 888-346-9141 Now back to the show was Sydney
Sydney Williams 39:51
Welcome back to Wellness in the Wilderness. I'm your host Sydney Williams and I'm here with Anna Levesque from Mind Body Paddle and before the break we were talking about all the different inequities. She was seeing in the sport of whitewater kayaking. And when we were getting ready to give a little break for our commercials, we were talking about the DVD series that she was producing and getting ready to release. So Anna, let's pick it up where we left off. How did the DVD release go?
Anna Clevesque 40:16
It was amazing. I was. So it my DVD called girls up play. It was a this was back in 2004. It was a DVD instructional DVD for women with a lot of women telling their stories about whitewater kayaking, what was important to them. And it premiered at an event called the whitewater symposium. So there was a lot of my colleagues like high level paddlers, instructors, competitors at this gathering, and when it's I was standing in the room, and my heart was beating full stop, I was just sweating. I was so I was shaking. I was so nervous. And it is quite the experience to sit through and watch something that you've created. And watch other people watch it for the first time. And, you know, of course, I mentioned earlier that I can be pretty hard on myself. So I was, you know, you know, I was starting to see all the things that I would have changed that and that. So I was really nervous. And then at the end, I received a standing ovation. If I had again,
Sydney Williams 41:35
bucks, I'd be like, the air horns.
Anna Clevesque 41:40
I was shocked. And I was so elated. I mean, I don't think I there it was such an incredible feeling to be. It wasn't just me being affirmed. It was the story I was telling, right. And to see so much support for women's stories was really
Sydney Williams 42:02
amazing. Yes. Oh, so 2004. So we're coming up on the 20 year anniversary of your DVD series and these instructional videos and sharing these stories, getting this validation talked me through the last 18 years since you did that. How did that DVD series ladder up to what you're doing today? Yeah, so when the the DVD got started getting distributed, I did a tour and instructional tour of the US and Canada supported by my amazing sponsors. And so I would offer free to low cost classes for women and everywhere I went to especially the first several years, they were full, I mean, you know, 30-40 women showing up which is a lot for whitewater kayaking, you know, this is a niche within a niche, niche sport. And then women in Whitewater is a niche. And so of course, I had instructors to help me out. And and from there, it you know, I started offering more retreat style. You know, we're all staying together so we can share our stories. We're sharing meals together. And you know, I stopped competing soon after that, because I realized that my calling is really coaching and instruction and helping women with courage and confidence. And so, you know,
Anna Clevesque 43:31
so there was that side, which was super affirming. And then the other side was I had I had pushback, right and from both men and women and Hi, you know, excellent female paddlers would say it's not okra, you know, the, it's okay to cry on the river. Segment. Still to this day, Sydney, I mind body pedal Facebook pages did a post about that, like this week. And there's still it's still one of the most engaging engaged posts of this month, right? Women are still saying this still needs to be normalized. So there's still work to be done. And, you know, there are folks who like it's not okay to cry on the river, you need to have your game face on it's it's intense out there, you could die you need to be fully in control, you know, so there's, to me, there's, there was a lack of emotional understanding and emotional intelligence. And then, because I was advocating for women, not only in the confidence piece but also advocating as an athlete. I've always been big of let, again, I've mentioned showing up as myself. And especially at that time, I always I felt like athletes, female athletes were, you know, tended to be hyper sexualized or you had to be beautiful and really good. If you wanted to get any, you know, press and I would also push back against that. And I remember one press conference where I was pushing back at that I was called the feminazis of kayaking, which I thought was, I don't know. I kind of laughed, but not. So that's that's the kind of atmosphere I was in.
Sydney Williams 45:18
That's so wild. So was your feminazis of kayaking? Was that title bestowed upon you from a member of the press? Or just like somebody in the audience? What What the hell?
Anna Clevesque 45:27
A fellow pro kayaker.
Sydney Williams 45:30
Come on? Do better people. This isn't cool.
Anna Clevesque 45:35
Yeah. Didn't now come on. This isn't that, like, I'm still friends with this person. And I paddle with them a lot. They're awesome. That you know, this was, again, I think personal growth and self awareness has come a long way. And the culture has has changed. Now there's many there's several different my several a handful of female, female centered or for women who paddle events out there. And there are a lot more women who paddle. And I think, in general, in our culture, you know, courage is, I think it's more accepted that courage is being scared and taking action anyway. And in order to be scared and take action anyway, that requires vulnerability. So vulnerability is not such a dirty word anymore. Yes. So. Exactly, exactly. So we've come a we've come a long way. And so, yeah.
Sydney Williams 46:37
So tell me about how this evolved into Mind Body Paddle. So you do the DVDs, you're the feminazi of kayaking, then okay, obviously, that's going to light a fire under your butt. You seem like a real go getter, a lady that gets stuff done. What what happened next, like how did that ladder up to my body paddle as it exists today? Yeah, great question. So I started practicing yoga, when I was competing to help me focus in the present moment and focus on what was important to me, and also for the benefits of reducing the risk of injury. And from yoga I so I'm a 500 hour yoga teacher.
Anna Clevesque 47:19
And I also am an Ayurvedic health coach, Ayurveda is the sister science to yoga, and it is based on the the elements of nature, and essentially that of the philosophy that we are nature. And that when we can, we can really sync with nature and circadian rhythm that our health improves greatly. Sorry about a little thing in my throat.
Sydney Williams 47:48
Well, I can certainly relate to the holistic side of this. And I think that, yeah, adding that into an adding yoga, adding Ayurveda into any kind of practice, especially athletic, and especially these ones, where we're spending time in nature, and we are allowing ourselves to be part of it. I love that. You call that out because like, that's the indigenous way of living before colonization before we decided that we knew better than the people that have been stewarding the lands for 1000s of years. That is how humanity existed. We ate seasonally, we ate locally, and it wasn't like going to the market. It was like foraging for food. So I love that you brought that into it. Because on the water on the trail, anywhere else you got to go outside like to be able to have those experiences and to connect deeply with the land on which you're recreating or living or working is a really foundational part of the experience of the sport that you're pursuing. Would you agree? Yes, 100% it fully and so that that Ayurvedic health coaching and yoga
Anna Clevesque 48:59
really have helped me to grow in self awareness and strategies in mind body and paddling. Right and how, how I approach the challenge of whitewater kayaking is how I approach other areas of my life. And that's how I work with my clients. Right is to not compartmentalize everything, but to see where there's the thread and and see how we can Yeah, have a holistic approach. And yet a holistic approach and Ken Like you said, connect with with the river because the river has so many teachings for us.
Sydney Williams 49:40
Oh my gosh, the wisdom out there. It's gotta be just wild. I've never I mean, like I go paddleboarding and I love it deeply. But I imagine in a high pressure situation when you're doing some of these extreme things, going over waterfalls, you know, with other people responsible for your life and in some ways, the lives of others because you have to be in control of your vessel and yourself. Um, all of that just really adds on to the experience. So when, if there's anybody listening that is curious about how to get started in whitewater rafting or kayaking, if there's somebody that's like, maybe they're in it, and they're like nodding aggressively as they listen, maybe they're crying because they're thinking about all the times and they've experienced what you've spoken to. Do you have any advice for people? That would, that you wish that you had back in the day before you met Buffy before you started talking to the other pro women in the sport?
Anna Clevesque 50:34
Yeah, I want to say that having strong boundaries is healthy. So the river when you look at a river, it the river exists because of the banks, right, because of its banks. Without the banks of the river, there would be no river, it would be a lake or all the water would dissipate into the earth. And so within those banks, the river is able to flow and do its dance and be beautiful and creative. And, and so it's really healthy to set boundaries for yourself, both with yourself. So in your watch, your self talk is one of them. So having a boundary with yourself. There's freedom through boundaries. So when you notice that negative self talk, like I said, I've been I tended to be really hard on myself. You know, when you notice that spiral, say that's not true for me. Or even if you notice yourself saying, Oh, that whitewater stuff, it looks so fun, but there's no way I could do it. Or there's no way I could stand up on a paddleboard. That's not true for me, right. And the other thing is boundaries with others, and creating that self awareness and being strong and who you are, and not being afraid to set those boundaries. And also the boundaries of the other thing I would say is small, consistent actions over time lead to amazing results. So keep showing up for yourself, keep showing up over and over and over for what you love. You know, back in the day, when I spent my graduation money investing in my first kayak, some folks would have said, Oh, that's a dumb idea. Why aren't you investing in something you know, that will actually help your future? Well, turns out that was the best investment in my future I could make.
Sydney Williams 52:22
I love that so much. Yes, and I'm a sucker for for a metaphor and a visual. So thank you for equating boundaries to the banks of a river for 2023. What do you have going on? And where can people connect with you?
Anna Clevesque 52:35
Yes, so 2023 Law, I've got several programs what I want to invite our listeners, I offer a monthly free webinar every month. And actually I'm offering two more, I'm offering two before the end of the year. So if you go to mind body paddle.com/webinars You'll see the registration links and also you'll be able to sign up for my weekly newsletter so you can
Sydney Williams 53:02
find out what's coming up but I've got several group programs on the water for women. I've got my master your whitewater mindset coming up in January, which is an eight week live and virtual program. So I offer both, you know, online coaching and and in person coaching one on one and group and I offer the holistic approach. So we look at all areas of life when you work with me, not just paddling. I love that so much. So thank you so much, Anna for joining us on this episode of Wellness in the wilderness. Next week we will be chatting with Arlette Laan, The first woman to complete all 11 National Scenic Trails in America and Sarah from Gossamer Gear one of our other sponsors of the show, or that spent 19 years completing the 911 national scenic trails with the Pacific Crest Trail being the first hike that would help her find her way back home to herself and design a lifestyle around the activities that brought her joy made her feel strong and connected with an incredible community. So you don't want to miss that conversation. Tune in next week. To keep the conversation going here follow us on Instagram @hikingmyfeelings and join the Hiking My Feelings Family at family.hikingmyfeelings.org The Hiking My Feelings Family is our own private social network think Facebook but without the ads your odd uncle or that chick you haven't talked to since middle school. It's a great place to find like minded adventure buddy. Learn more about our programs and retreats and stay connected with the community. So we hope to see you there. Thank you for joining us for this week's dose of Wellness in the Wilderness. I sincerely hope that today's conversation with was a breath of fresh air. And I look forward to connecting you with you again next Tuesday at one o'clock Pacific on the voice America empowerment channel. Until next week, take care of yourself take care of each other. Dream big and be kind. We'll see you next time. Thanks for joining us on this week's show. We hope this episode has been a breath of fresh air for you and has inspired you to find your Wellness in the Wilderness. We will reconnect with nature and new again next week.
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