E12: A Legacy of Adventure and Service with Catalina Backcountry
How did Catalina Backcountry get started? Why did Cinde MacGugan-Cassidy decide to buy the business? How has her career in public service influenced how she runs the business? And what is her vision for responsible recreation on Catalina Island? This week we chat with Cinde about how Catalina Backcountry got started, her success so far, and her vision for the future.
ABOUT OUR GUEST:
Cinde hails from the Pacific Northwest of Washington State with over 40 years of hiking and camping experience. At Catalina Backcountry, she spends most of her time working with the abacus and when there's time to spare she enjoys boating, swimming, and is an expert wine taster. Cinde specializes in comfort camping and personally crafted group experiences. She spends approximately 25 percent of her time giving back, by working with and serving on the boards of many civic organizations in town as well as a long career serving in the capacity of an elected official.
IN THIS EPISODE:
How Catalina Backcountry started and why Cinde purchased the business to run it with her step-daughter
How Cinde is navigating a major life transition after 14 years of public service and having recently completed her Masters degree at Purdue University
How a life of service has informed her business decisions and how she shows up in her community
How we connected and decided to join forces
Cinde’s hope for all things recreation on Catalina Island
and more!
CONNECT WITH CATALINA BACKCOUNTRY:
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SHOW TRANSCRIPT:
Please note, we use Otter.ai to transcribe episodes and while the technology is impressive, it’s not completely accurate. Please excuse any missed words, nonsensical sentences, and missed interpretations of foreign language below:
Announcer 00:04
Welcome to Wellness in the Wilderness. Come with us on the trail of life as we inspire you to take a step outdoors to disconnect from the distractions and reconnect with yourself. Sydney Williams and her guests will motivate you to get active and get well. Now, here's Sydney.
Sydney Williams 00:24
All right, everybody. Welcome to Wellness in the Wilderness. I'm your host Sydney Williams, author and founder of Hiking My Feelings and today I'm broadcasting live from Pimu, aka Catalina Island, the ancestral lands of the Tongva People and I am in what is now known as Avalon, California. If you are interested in learning more about the lands you work live and play on visit native-land.ca. It's a great starting point to do some more research to find out who was here before we were and it really like honestly, it adds a layer of excitement and mystery and also like deep despair and sadness to your recreation. So like fair warning across the board, but also just a really awesome way to feel a little bit more connected to the land to learn the stories of the people who have stewarded the lands that we work, live and play on for 1000s of years before we got here. So do yourself a favor, head over to native-land.ca To learn more about the people that used to live where you live, and now today oh man, guys, it's been awesome. We've had a really great week. So last week I talked to Samuel J and we were talking about the things that make us human and little third grade Sydney had an appearance last week and she had an appearance this morning but we'll get into that later. Third Grade Sydney's been having a little bit of a hard time with the changes here but not grown up Sydney little Sydney is like help! and grown up Sydney's like Hey girl, we got this it's fine. So this morning we announced that we are working with Catalina back country well, I guess technically we announced that when Barry was on the show. And then this morning we introduced ourselves on the Catalina Backcountry Instagram and Facebook accounts. So now that the word is officially out and people will now recognize us in town and my shroud of invisibility or my cloak of invisibility and my anonymity in this town is slowly dwindling. I feel like because today's guest is Cinde MacGugan Cassidy and if you're not familiar with Catalina Island, the way business is done here, how City Council runs how the back country services that we create are created. You're about to find out so I was asking Cinde if she could give me a bio. She's like, well, I've got a political one. I've got the one on the Backcountry website that that and she's got so much cool stuff that she does that I figured I'm not gonna read something today and I'm gonna let Miss MacGugan Cassidy introduce herself. So Cinde, hi.
Cinde 02:54
Hi.
Sydney Williams 02:55
This is kind of weird, because like, I have to look at the microphone, but like side-eye use so I can make eye contact or we have a conversation. We'll figure it out as we go. But Good morning. Hi.
Cinde 03:03
Good morning. Thank you so much for having me today. Yeah, this is really exciting. Yay. Yeah, there's so much Glee in the room. It's, it's palpable.
Sydney Williams 03:14
we're vibing over here, everybody. We're vibing on Catalina Island. So I think let's just start with Catalina Backcountry. Before we get to all of the things that you're really great at and everything you've done. Can you just introduce yourself like if we had just met at a party and say that we havent created these magical experiences together say we aren't currently partners on this epic business. It's just gonna like revolutionize the way recreation is experienced on Catalina Island in the backcountry. Let's say that I don't think that we're probably the exact same person somehow separated by I don't know how many years but like, the way our brains work, the way we get excited about things, the things we get anxious about. It's a lot for me to handle Cinde, I like our similarities are. They're beautiful, and you're the most spectacular mirror and all the best ways so I'm going to be done. blabbing about like a little gush fest for you. Will you tell the people the fine listeners are here on Wellness of the Wilderness about yourself?
Cinde 04:17
Absolutely. Well, let's let's talk mostly about battle, Catalina Backcountry and my participation there. I am the president and co owner of Catalina backcountry. I purchased Catalina Backcountry from very, very dear friends of mine who this was their sort of brainchild in 2017. And one of the co founders of the company passed away. Unfortunately in 2013, and the company sort of went into dormancy. My stepdaughter at the time had just graduated San Diego State University with a recreation degree recreation management with an emphasis on sustainability. And when we looked at the dormancy of the company and knowing that the company was probably going to close, we kind of collaborated. And I said, Well, if you want, let's do this business together. And it's a perfect opportunity for you as a young, you know, 20 something year old. And for me, as you know, in my 40s, at the time, to mentor you into owning your own business, and what that takes, and how to create, you know, a space for yourself, and to be in charge of something, but also to recreate and do the things that you love to do and turn those things into a business that will be sustainable. So we embarked upon this journey in 2017. And, you know, with, with now our collaboration together, Sydney and Barry and myself, this is proving to be the exact spot that we needed to be in at the right time. And the things that I vision for the company, need to come to fruition, but I don't have the means or the right path. And, and so knowing that, six years down the road here, finding a collaboration to really push this company forward was exactly what I was looking for. And of course, you know, here we are now collaborating.
Sydney Williams 06:27
Yes, yes. So I, I was thinking the other day. So now that Barry and I are supporting Catalina Backcountry, and we're part of the team, and we're partners, and we're excited. And we're the boots on the ground. And we're out there, you know, whether it's doing hikes with folks that are on a cruise, and they're only here for the day, or folks that are in the middle of a vacation here, whether that's just you know, an overnight or a couple of days on the island. I, I've been thinking about how we initially started communicating, and how I mean, I'm just gonna say it how damn refreshing it was, to be able to talk to a human, not only just like in this world where customer service is largely automated, and it's really hard to get in touch with a human, but like, in particular, a human on the island who could help me execute what I wanted to execute. I'd love to kind of talk about how we got started with our relationship as an illustration of the services that that Backcountry offers. Absolutely as like a real world. We've experienced it. And now we loved working together so much that we're doing this together with all of the things that we do. Right? Does that sound good?
Cinde 07:37
Yeah, absolutely. You know, one of the benefits that we have in this platform right here right now is that, you know, we're very honest, and because of the relationship and the experiences that we've had together, and both of our willingness to share that, you know, it really sets the tone for, you know, hey, nothing really happens perfectly, like you've got to work at it, you've got to figure it out. And I love this opportunity to be able to say when when we first connected it was we were fairly new into the ownership of Catalina Backcountry, and we have a lot of responsibility to the conservancy, the Catalina Conservancy, who is the landowner that we operate our business on, we have, you know, permit structure fees, things that are associated, and we had never really done anything like a retreat, you know, we've done some camping, obviously, and some gear hauling and services and, you know, day hikes and things. But we hadn't really set up a night tonight, sort of Camp and Retreat, and combining that with the catering that we wanted to do and to provide a one stop shop. So through our initial discussions, you know, I can only view from your perspective that I was probably very unskilled and what I was doing
Sydney Williams 08:59
No, not true. Continue, but I'm gonna I'm gonna interrupt when you say things like that you go on,
Cinde 09:05
and then you know you at the time as my client, were saying, you know, I want the best that I can have foodwise for my clientele, I want to make sure all their needs are met that if we have any dietary requirements that we can service that, that basically your your goal was to bring people here to the island to share your experience and to help them heal with whatever it was that they needed to heal from. So that was a pretty tall order for me, as a very empathetic person. I wanted to give you that experience, but I really wasn't sure how to do it. And so, you know, our conversations and our fumbling through how to organize this trip were life changing in terms of our company that it taught us it gave us a platform to be able to learn how to do this in a safe environment like your my conversations where I don't know if you've heard of Oh, let's I happen to have to get back to you. And while I think on our end, we were trying to be, you know, professional and whatnot. I was also very honest about I have absolutely no idea but gosh, we're gonna figure it out, and we're gonna make this happen.
Sydney Williams 10:15
Yeah. And I think that's, well, I know that's why I enjoyed working with you as a partner vendor. And why I I was gonna say why I sold everything I owned and moved to Catalina I already sold everything I already did that I don't get to I don't get to play on that twice. Now. While I got everything out of my van, and moved to Catalina, like I, the, what you just said is exactly what I have been feeling and is I'm going to kind of like backtrack into a story here. And for anybody that's been ever listened to anything that I ever do, sometimes I gotta go around the block to get next door, I might even lose my train of thought in the process of doing this, but I'm committed. So here we go. I have felt deeply in my soul, that there's got to be a better way to do business. I had tremendously helpful training and lived experience in my corporate communications career. I have been in charge of multimillion dollar marketing budgets. I have been the lady with a finger on the pulse of a crisis communications team like I've been in high stress, also high reward but is the reward really that high when it's only a paycheck and you're too sick to spend it. I don't know. That's a conversation for another day. But like I have felt in my core from like the second that I maybe even for my first lemonade stand. Maybe when Neil my neighbor, at my first lemonade stand gave me a 10 and I didn't have any change. And I thought that I should just get $10 for my $1 Lemonade. Maybe that's when I thought that's another way to do things. But I think it's knowing what and you are so damn humble Cinde, she like kind of just talked about what she's done for Catalina Backcountry and like that, that part of her life. But like, I am sitting next to a woman who has done over a decade of public service who has multiple businesses on island, the Cassidy family of businesses like it is and I'm not just saying this because I heard her say this the other day, like it is I have seen this in my interactions with people on this island. I say Oh, I'm working with Catalina Backcountry people like, oh, you get to work with the Cassidy's like it is it is a cool thing to be in this world. And I have known since like, I'm going to call it lemonade stand time, that there's a different way to do business where you can actually give a shit about people and I have always on that. I feel like there's a spectrum of like, you can have a great idea. And this is something that I've learned with Hiking My Feelings, you can have a great idea. And if you don't have the resources to bring it to life, it dies. Doesn't matter how passionate you are about it doesn't matter how good the work is, doesn't matter who tweets about it, who posts on Instagram, like that doesn't matter if you in this society that we live in today. In America, if we don't have the resources, we need to bring an idea to life it dies. That's just the way it is or you get lucky. But there's really no other way. And so I've always been on the side of I have great ideas. And in my career back in corporate America, I got paid to deliver good ideas. And then unbeknownst to me, because this is just the world I grew up in after college, my good ideas were wildly successful, because they had millions of dollars of budget behind them. So I've always been on the idea side, and then the financial side has always been figured out. And the resources have always been figured out. I have been convinced that someday somewhere I will meet somebody who knows how to do business who's good at it, who has possibly more than one because they're so good at it, who will see that I have ideas. And what I need is resources and support to execute. And that is Cinde MacGugan Cassidy for me, legit and like verbatim what you said, when we were at your house in October last year, you were like, I have the resources, I don't have the time, or I don't have the bandwidth, because you do a lot of things for a lot of people. And you create a lot of jobs that people get to have roofs over their houses, because of the businesses that you run like, it's a big deal. And you said I have the resources. I don't have the time or bandwidth and you were like, and you have the time and bandwidth. It sounds like you need the resources. So it sounds like this is a good idea. We're a month in is it still a good idea? We still haven't fun because I'm still having fun.
Cinde 14:18
It's fantastic. Yeah, I've spent my last 48 hours basically living, dreaming, sleeping, eating, all about the trans Catalina trail. And what we do is a service and how many lives we've changed by things such as being the only trail in the country that you can hike multi day multi generational, and essentially have four generations of a family hiking a trail together, like we provide that service and that feels so good to be reminding ourselves of this that every person that we touch, that does anything with our company, we're creating a magical experience for them and their family. And that keeps me going, like making people happy and doing something that yeah, it earns us money. But how many people really get to say they earn a paycheck by making somebody else's life? Wonderful. That feels really good to me.
Sydney Williams 15:15
Yeah. If you're a service oriented person and you like the outdoors, I can see why Catalina Backcountry was a smart investment for you. Absolutely. Like, if for no other reason than, like, selfishly, I know, I feel good. When I make other people feel good. I also like paying my bills and having a little extra money in the bank, I can someday build this to the point where I could make two people's dreams come true Sydney and Barry Williams, and then like, and then at the baseline, like, that's all the good reasons. And on top of that, you get to have these wonderful experiences with wonderful humans.
Cinde 15:46
There's also this little selfish part of it to where I get to say to our team members and other businesses like oh, gosh, I'm so sorry, you're gonna have to take the reigns for the weekend because I gotta go camping. I love that, that opportunity that we get to participate in some of the things that we love to do as a family, by also working together as a family and creating those wonderful experiences for others.
Sydney Williams 16:09
Absolutely. So, um, let's see, oh, we're looking good. Okay, great. So here's what I'm thinking. Um, we've been talking about how you started cat. Well, how you the origin of Catalina Backcountry, how you purchased it, what your vision is, and was for it. We talked about how we're working here. Now, when we get back from the break. I would love to chat a little bit about how your service your career in public service has influenced now that you're like out of that, like, what does that adjustment period been like? And how do you anticipate Catalina Backcountry weaving itself back into some of this time that you freed up now that you're not in public service? You're not in school like you've got your masters. You've retired from being a council woman. When we get back I want to talk about that.
Cinde 16:58
Sounds great.
Sydney Williams 16:59
Okay, don't go anywhere. I'll be right back with Cinde Macgugan Cassidy.
Announcer 17:20
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Sydney Williams 19:53
Welcome back to Wellness in the Wilderness. I'm your host Sydney Williams and I am here with Cinde from Catalina Backcountry And we've been talking a little bit about how she purchased the business, her vision for it. Some random stories that I thought I should tell, and now we're back. So we're gonna bout what we were talking about before we left, which was, Let's just tell me a little bit about the public service that you've done. And then let's roll into that. However you want to go from there.
Cinde 20:22
That sounds great. So I was thinking about this question. And, you know, I'm 50 years old, I'm very proud of where I am in life. And I have an unbelievable husband, five stepchildren, who are just incredible. They give me joy, and they push me harder. They were the catalyst for pushing me to go back to school and get my master's degree, which I just finished and graduated last month. Yay me.
Sydney Williams 20:50
can I get out air horn? Beep beep beep, okay, go ahead.
Cinde 20:55
Um, but when I think back about when my time of service started, the earliest memory of service that I have is really about four or five years old. My father was part of an organization in Washington state called the Steelheaders organization. And, you know, the charge was really about sustaining the salmon population. And, you know, 50 years ago, this is all just began about how we have to start to preserve the land and the resources that we have. And so I literally grew up in opportunity of service where we fished the and farmed the eggs, and then put them in the rivers and, you know, was sustainable in in that resource of creating food for our people. My father was a Rotarian for his entire life, from the moment that he entered the Rotary Club, until his passing, and that created my life of service that with everything that I do, I have service in mind. And that comes with running a business that the business isn't about making money. Of course, you know, you want to be sustainable. But a business is about service, its service to the people that are part of the organization and service to the customers that you have. So thinking about Why Am I successful in the things that I do? It's because it's not about me. And it's not about the product, it's about the people that we surround ourselves with. And keeping that in mind, every single thing that I do is about service. So I myself am a Rotarian. I've been a Rotarian for about 15 years now. And you know, I do a lot of different things in our community. If anybody ever asked for a volunteer or or work to be done, you know, I'm first person to raise my hand. And I feel that setting that example for others is really powerful. I moved to the island in 2006. And one of my first friends on the island was the mayor at the time. Bob Kennedy, I'll call you out for this. And he said to me, you have a history in and on the water, you're a US Coast Guard Captain at the time, I was a high level dive instructor as well. And he said, You've got experience on the water. And you've got corporate experience, you've got great business experience, I want to make you a harbor Commissioner. So I worked my way up from a harbor commissioner to a planning commissioner to the city council to spending my last six years in service as our vice mayor for the city of Avalon. And recently, I made the decision that I did not want to run for another four year term, I wanted to focus on family and focus on myself after 14 years of service. So essentially, here I am, now I'm six months retired from public service. And this past week, I had the opportunity to have my first vacation as as married to my husband my first vacation, where I did not have to attend a meeting or participate in in any sort of educational environment or city council. And it's been an interesting transition because everybody who doesn't know that I'm retired, will still ask for help. And my immediate reaction is, hey, let me do whatever I can to help you not realizing that wait, you're not in that position anymore. You You've got to send them to the right people now because you're not the one who can do this anymore. So it's been a really interesting transition. But the the benefit to me is that it's been a long time since I've really stopped and focused on what do I want the second half of my life to be that I've I've done all these years of service and I still want to do service but I really want to plan for what is the next 50 Plus years for me going to be like and so that's kind of where we are now. Oh, a couple things I need to unpack there, ma'am. Coast Guard Captain hit me with that story. I left I grew up in Washington state spent my last 10 years, eight years or so that I lived in Washington and downtown Seattle. My father passed away who was my anchor my, my barometer for doing all things. His focus was business business business, make your money while you're young. When you retire, that's when you get to enjoy time. And unfortunately, when my dad hit his mark for where he felt he was successful, Unfortunately, he passed away a year after Oh, man. So I took this opportunity to say to myself, you know, look, you can stay here and grow your businesses that I had at the time. Or you can go and enjoy your life now and do some things so that you don't ever have to look back and say, I wish I would have. And that's what I did. I sold my business sold my house sold all my belongings. And I bought a one way ticket to Aruba. And I traveled around the Caribbean traveled around the world to but traveled around the Caribbean working as a dive instructor got a British captain's license got came back to the States gotta use US Coast Guard captain's license. And, you know, then once I've completed all of that, and came to Catalina decided that this is where I really wanted to stay after traveling for 10 years. And then I just stayed here and decided that I really wanted to go back into business, that my fun time of traveling and playing was coming to an end and I really wanted to spend more time on land and do some different things.
Sydney Williams 27:00
I'm just trying to do the math in my head because I'm like, okay, so I was 37 when I moved here last month. You moved here in 2006. You're 50. So Mike, where was like, what was Cinde MacGugan? Because I don't you weren't Cassidy when you moved here? No, I was what was Cinde MacGugan doing when she was 37 years old? Like I'm not even I don't know if that's when you move here. But like what were you doing when you were 37
Cinde 27:26
I think I moved to the island just before, within a year or two before that I have to unpack those numbers. But I was traveling around and my brother and his wife had had my first nephew. And he the first moment I laid eyes on him, I realized that he was my person. And I just needed to be I needed to be back in the States. I needed to be near him. I loved island living. And so I took a contract to come to Catalina Island. And when all of that ended, I just thought, well, I'm going to stay right where I'm at. And at the time, I was only about two hours away from from my brother. Well, really from my nephew. You know, brother, I
Sydney Williams 28:11
It was the nephew you were here for Yeah.
Cinde 28:15
But that was you know, there was a time where I'd spent so much time traveling and away from my family that I realized part of what I needed to do was was get back to those roots and figure out, you know, what are the next steps for me and constantly evolving and constantly finding a challenge. And until I met my husband, and we combined a couple businesses and started some new ones. I hadn't really felt grounded since my father had passed away I had really, and that's what happens when you move around all the time. The experiences that I've I've had during this time only make everything I do from this point forward even better. So it was just time to reevaluate it was you know, some people say settle down. But when you meet me, you know, there is no settling, there's no settling for anything. You just got to keep going keep growing, keep doing, you know, keep being and so here we are
Sydney Williams 29:12
settling in maybe versus settling down, settling into a space that you'd like that you found.
Cinde 29:19
I remember one of my fondest memories. In the year before my dad passed away. We spent every weekend together. Magical magical times, but I had said to him in my era growing up, you know, girls didn't really get to go hunting and fishing and all of that. And I was a unique individual that this is what my family did. And you know, we were the people being pulled on black inner tubes behind, you know, Chevy trucks on streets and we weren't supposed to be on I mean, we were just, we were living life. And I had said to my father, you know, hey, you really didn't want a daughter did you? And he was like, you know I'm not sure what I wanted but what I got was a Cinde had the most amazing smile on his face and that is one of the fondest most amazing Thank you dad. I see what their memories that I have. And and that's always stuck with me like, I'm not I'm not just anything I'm a I'm a Cinde and I just love that.
Sydney Williams 30:24
Oh my god, I love it. I love it one because so shout out Melanie Strout. Melanie Strout is my chose one of my chosen mothers, I have several chosen mothers. But Melanie Strout said, like for because me and like just my self image, and my how I perceive myself and stuff I was like, it's like, the math ain't mathin'. And she's like, you know, some people will see you. And they think two plus two is five, because like, they don't know what to do with you. Like they have a very clear understanding of what you should be and your don't fit. So it's like two plus two is five. It just doesn't make sense. It doesn't compute the math ain't mathin'. She's like, Sydney you're a four. And I was like, damn, right. I'm a four. Like, I am the truth. I am two plus two equals four. I am Sydney. Yes. And also I just every time you say, I'm Cinde, and you like own it, because that's your name. I think, man, every time we've ever been, I've ever been to Starbucks, they call me Cindy. Like without fail, there are three times I can literally count on one hand where they've gotten my name, right. And Cindy is my alter ego. And now I'm sitting with this, Cinde, who's so great. Okay, so tell me a little bit before we jump to our next break. We've got some time to chat, I would love to hear about how you're like, you talked about going on this vacation. It was your first one, since you've been married, that you didn't have to go on a meeting, like you mentioned that you just earned your masters. Congratulations.
Cinde 31:49
Thank you.
Sydney Williams 31:49
And you mentioned that you retired for public service. Those two things like one of those things takes up a lot of time and space and energy and our brains and bodies and spirits. What are you doing with all the space that has been created by not having those two things is like the key tw of the key components of what you're doing on a day to day basis?
Cinde 32:11
Well, in a way, I'm still, you know, figuring out what, what the future holds. And that's part of what this brilliant time is for me to my husband, I have a couple little trips plan to spend one on one time together. My first idea is always which one of the kids wants to go where Let's go. But it's really important for him and I to spend this quality time together. And you know, I'm reveling in the fact that it was a bucket list item for me to go and get my masters. And the first thing that happened immediately, the day after my very last class and presentation was okay, well, where do I enroll to get my doctorate? And, you know, I didn't even think about it, it just was what's the next step? Like, what's the next thing I can learn? What's the next thing that I can do? And I've had to dial that back a little bit. Now I'm getting hundreds of emails over a weekly period of different universities reaching out and hey, you know, come to your math, your doctorate with us. And I was like, What was I thinking? I'm really enjoying, being able to actually turn off my computer, at least by 530 - 6 o'clock at night and go home. I live in one of the most amazing places on the planet. I'm surrounded by incredible people, and people that I love and adore. And it's been a long time since I've really enjoyed that. We're all going on a hike tomorrow. I'm very excited about that. But really, I don't know what to do with that empty time. I'm taking it day by day, which I think is is really a valuable comment, because we just think about all the things we have to do. And we think about what am I going to do tomorrow? And what's my schedule, like on Friday, and I'm trying to train my mind to dial that back a little bit and go, What are we doing? What's gonna happen just today, you know, let's go home. Let's not have a plan. Who cares what we cook for dinner, let's just go home and figure it out. So it's really what I'm doing now is changing my mindset. And just trying to find what today means for filling some space.
Sydney Williams 34:29
Hmm, I love that. So Oh, man. I want to I got like 18 questions that would all require thorough answers. So all let's do this. I'm gonna go to break early because I don't have enough time to talk about what I want to talk about. And I don't want to wait to talk about it. So when we get back, we'll pick this conversation back up with Cinde Cassidy. Don't go anywhere. If you'd like to call in. If you're listening live and you have questions, or you just want to shout out like hey, I'm a Very serious businesswoman and I see the serious businesswoman in you. That's a Romy and Michele's high school reunion reference if nobody caught it if you want to talk to some serious business ladies, we're on the other line here. We're ready for you. We'll be right back
Announcer 35:17
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Sydney Williams 37:53
All right, everybody. Welcome back to Wellness in the Wilderness. I'm your host Sydney Williams and I'm here with Cinde MacGugan Cassidy from Catalina Backcountry and the Cassidy family of businesses and the Avalon city council and as an and wherever you would school, Purdue
Cinde 38:09
Purdue University
Sydney Williams 38:10
recent recent masters graduate at Purdue University with a degree in
Cinde 38:15
business management
Sydney Williams 38:16
business management. Okay, so before the break we were talking about, I had asked Cinde like what is she doing with this space like there's I mean, you go for a master's program, and you're in public service, let alone the other things that you do all the other hats you wear all the other trades, you're the Jill of that creates a lot of space when we clear a master's program and public service off the plate. So I had asked Cinde like, What is she doing with the space that she's created? And she said, she's taking it day by day. I'm gonna follow up with that. I got a question for you. I'm gonna do, I'm gonna do what Cinde did to me in October. So I was here in October. And Cinde was like, Hey, I got a question for you. I feel like it's a long shot answered probably going to be no, but I got to ask it anyway. And then she asked if I wanted to go to trip and I was like, Yes. And then she's like, Oh, she, like I saw her face and whole body and the way her brain computes, like completely switched, because she was waiting for no. And I gave her a yes. So here's a question out of left field. I don't think it's going to be a no, but I think it's a really cool door for a cool conversation. I got two first one being, and we'll answer two as a conversation. So here, stick with me, everybody. Number one. One thing I heard you say was for the people that don't know that you're retired from public service, they keep asking you questions, and you have to like send them on the right direction. But you're like you're so wired. And it's at this point, it's 13 plus your habit to say yes. And how does it feel as that starts to dwindle? And maybe it already has because like you're probably not getting all the emails and all the comments and all the questions that you got when you were actively in public service. Do you find that it feels weird to not have people coming to you for that? Like does it feel weird to not like, does it feel? Is there a part of you that like feels? Is it unfamiliar or uncomfortable or sad or insert whatever the word is for you here that, after so many years of being that person with those answers, does it feel weird to like pass the buck a little bit?
Cinde 40:16
I think for the first couple of months, it definitely was difficult for me, not not being in the know, but also not being able to answer I happen to be probably the first actual public servant in the city of Avalon that would actively engage on social media platforms. And not for lack of others not doing it. But for the for the fact that I knew how to do it, I knew what to say I had the information. So that part was was a little bit hard in the beginning, not knowing not being able to put the community at ease. But slowly over the last couple months, I've realized how much of myself, you know, 20 plus hours a week, that 20 plus hours a week took away from my family, more so because I still have business to run. So as that that time transition has been happening over the last few months, I felt less and less anxious about answering those questions. I do my heart sinks every time I hear the fire department roll upon an event. My first reaction is I hope somebody's okay, how can I help? Do I need to direct traffic? What do I need to do? And now I simply switch my brain and I go, they got this and they've got people in my place in the position I used to be in, they've got plenty of support. It's okay to just let this one go. Let that siren go and pray for the best. Yeah, you know, so it's, it's part of that healing in your mind, you know, not to dwell on what you no longer have, but think about what you're going to do with with what you have going forward.
Sydney Williams 41:56
Yes. Okay. Excellent answer. Love that. Thank you. My next question, because so you've said, I got my masters and like, I've always wanted to get my masters and then I got it. And then you're like, the first thing I thought it was like, Where do I do my PhD program? Hi relatable. It's me also, not with higher education. I was like, I got my degree, I got him over it. But i i to live in a space of in fact, I was sitting outside of Barry today. And I had asked him I was like, Do you think I'm capable of being satisfied? Here's why. Because I woke up and I decided to run out of the house and go cry on the beach. And I would have kept going if I was on the mainland and I had more room to run. But the ocean stopped me and Catalina was like, Hey, girl, you're gonna sit your pretty ass down and you're gonna think about those feelings and you can't run from them anymore. And the reason I bring all this up is because I too am in a state of transition where like, all my dreams are coming true. I can't talk about any of them yet, but they are coming true. And that is frustrating in itself, folks, because I've been baiting you for 12 weeks, with good news that I still to this day cannot share and it's annoying. But what I will say is using my last book as an example, once I wrote it, like I had this dream of being an author, and I held to it so tightly and so dearly. And I had this like really beautiful picture of what I felt my author journey would look like. And so far, that's been like nothing like it. I never like my real life is not actually a rom com where the author gets a six figure advance and plucked from writing obscurity and then ends up on a bestseller list right away. That's apparently not how life works. But all of which is to illustrate that goal was so big and so and took up so much space that after I accomplished it. What I thought I was feeling was like emptiness, like I was like, Oh, who am I? Without this big dream, like I've done it. Like I, I did the thing. And like, now what, and there wasn't like some big rush to fill it. But what I thought was emptiness was that spaciousness that we were talking about, like in my body, the end what I thought was emptiness. And it kind of felt like loneliness, because it's all this like, kind of like hollow like, it literally feels like there's space in my heart for more dreams or in my brain for more dreams. Like when I realized that it wasn't emptiness, but it was spaciousness. And I was like, Oh, well, now I don't feel like I'm in a rush to fill it. Like, I've just got room to like, let it all out a little bit. Am I alone in that? Or does that like have you felt any kind of like emptiness versus spaciousness as you're transitioning out of like two really big chapters of your life?
Cinde 44:25
I think there has been a little bit of that. I've certainly tried to fill some time with new things that make me feel whole and complete. Spending a lot more time in the mountains. And that's just so refreshing out of the public eye out of a space where I'm recognized. You know, it always feels good to have people recognize you, but it's also really good to be able to go for a hike or a walk and just cry it out or just feel what I need to feel or be who I need to be without feeling like I have to be on all the time. And so There's a lot of things that I've working on processing through. There's a little bit of emptiness. There was a moment where I didn't feel needed.
Sydney Williams 45:09
Oh, I hate that. Yeah, that hurts my heart even just hearing you like, process those words, as I saw them come out of your mouth was like, Oh, I feel that deeply.
Cinde 45:16
You know And the interesting thing is that how I've been healing that from my own heart is, every time one of my stepkids asked me a question or text me or, or needs me for some reason. I'm like, 1,000%, in where I used to be 100%. And now it's like, you know, all hands on deck, what do you need? Where do I need to go? How do I how do I answer this for you? How do I fix it, you know, whose knees need capping? You're feeling a kick in the shins. And so, um, for a moment, you know, I might go a day and just feel like, oh, you know, nobody. Nobody's asked me for anything today. And then boom, somebody asked for a day off and one of the businesses to go visit their family. And I'm like, I got you let me reorganize the calendar. And it seems like I'm simplifying it really. But in my mind, I'm amplifying the things that I felt haven't been given my all and, and that slowly building me back up to feeling like, you want to go on vacation, I'm no longer just going to say, Hey, let me make your vacation work. I want to know where you're going, which family you're going to see. And, and that's what the people that I'm surrounding myself need from me as well. And, and they've all supported me through all these years of public service that now here we all are together, and now I get to support them in different things that I couldn't before. So I think the positives are what you make of it, what you do with it, changing that belief that I'm not needed or not wanted to, what more can I do besides just say, I'm sorry You're having a bad day? Like, yeah, how can I change that day for you? What do I need to do to make your day great.
Sydney Williams 47:08
And this, y'all if that a reason why you should book Catalina backcountry person camping services, I don't know what to tell you. I might be biased because I work with this lady now. But y'all I'm For Real like that. I mean, this is it's like, you can teach customer service. But you I genuinely believe you're either born with like the service gene where it is all you know, and it informs all your decisions and the way you live your life. There's a lot of people that can talk the talk. But and and I would argue that a lot of people in public service, talk the talk. There's there there are really good, like I what I'm feeling in my heart and soul and this conversation is giving me a renewed hope for humanity. Like there are people who are currently in or have been in business in public service that genuinely want the best for the people that work with them and for them. And it's not. And it's really hard to remember that especially with all these layoffs that are happening. The job market being the way it is people reevaluating what is important and how much is enough after the pandemic and all this stuff like for anybody that's out there. That's like having a hard time with like the work thing. There are people like Cinde MacGugan Cassidy in your town. I know that there's gotta be like, and you just gotta go do something that makes you excited. And then you'll meet those people, because that's how I ended up here. Yeah, like I love this trail. I like I love this trail. So much I sold I can claim this one. I love this trail. So much. I sold everything I owned to buy a van to travel around the country and tell everybody and their mother and anybody that would listen how much I love this trail and why y'all should love it, too. And now I get to live here and do cool things with you. Yeah, what are they? What are some of the things that you'd like to see? What are some of your hopes and dreams and visions for Catalina Backcountry, the island recreation here in 2023. And beyond that, that you'd like to share? Like what's on your heart? Like what do you what do you like? What what what are you fighting for? Now for Catalina Island, like it's a different way of service but in in essence contributing to the same outcomes.
Cinde 49:13
Well, one of the things I'd really like to hijack your show for and touch on is, you know, why, why I feel so strongly about our relationship and
Sydney Williams 49:25
excuse me. Do tell.
Cinde 49:27
The, the movement that I saw in the retreats that we did together, Kaleo and Melanie and and starting the day with stretching and yoga and finishing the day with, you know, getting rid of the negative things that are in our lives and finding a path to wellness for each individual, whatever that means, and however that needs to be done. You know, I started out as sort of a contractor building helping you build these retreats to wanting to be in the retreat and wanting to be part of it and like, oh my gosh, I gotta go cook dinner, I gotta go. But, um, something that is really moving to me is, in this day and age today, right now we have a platform that we have never had in our history, to be able to be who we are, and to feel what we feel, and the pain that the people we know go through, it used to all be just pushed down. And now we have these avenues, these these ways to work through trauma and drama, and all of those things that come with it that we're, we now can be public about needing help and public about how do we help people if that's what our role is, and I think working together, and the idea of building more for our community of what we're doing is kind of like, the second half of my life. It's like what I envision, you know, Backcountry has so much opportunity to grow and do more of these events. And we've got a lot of really exciting, you know, different promotional things that are happening, and different retreats that are coming to the island, and we're hosting that we're making that happen, and I just want to do more of it. But there's also a part of me that, you know, I have my own trauma and my own hurt. And I think being able to stand up and say, Hey, I'm human too, and, and I need my relationship with you. Because you empower me, I empower you. And we're going to do this great thing. And each person that we touch, kind of feels a little bit of that hole in the heart of we didn't even know we had every little bit like build it and build it and build it. You know,
Sydney Williams 51:49
I'm sorry, I'm about to blackout we just had an eye contact moment. Like I was eye gazing resending for like a fucking hour, sorry, I just,
Cinde 51:55
I do kind of feel like you know, think about the the Grinch that stole Christmas at the end where his heart was just growing bigger and bigger and bigger until it just like grew out of his chest. And that's what I want for the future of Backcountry. And that's why our collaboration is going to be so beautiful. Because what we want to do, and the different businesses that will come from, you know, that's what I do, I build businesses, but the different businesses that come from this is, is all going to be service oriented. It's all going to be about helping people or doing great things for people making a relationship better, making a husband wife relationship better making a family relationship better. Like that's what I want, the last half of my life to be about is is doing more for everyone else and filling my own heart.
Sydney Williams 52:39
Yes. And I think that's, I think that's the big part because like I, I've been sitting here and I've been like God all she talks about how she's going to keep going and she's going to keep growing and she's going to keep learning, she's going to build more businesses. When does this woman ever sit down? But the thing is, there are many ways to live a life. There are many ways to run a business. There are many ways to start an organization, there's many ways to foster community. But at the end of the day, what you just said, is the answer to my question where I was like, When is she going to slow down? I don't think it's a matter of like when is she going to slow down it's a matter of like this the way you've you have zeroed in so accurately with like the finest of laser technology, the kind of living that you want to do what and you've identified the activities and the business ventures and the opportunities and the vacations and the relationships and the everything else, the healing journeys and everything that like that lights you up. And now you're just you're just doing it.
Cinde 53:35
Well, I think it's interesting to point out that for everybody, what makes them happy is something different. And for some it's structure, it's going home at five o'clock every day cooking dinner together as a family or as an individual. It's having Saturday, Sunday off. For me that picture is different. I've never had like a normal nine to five job I've always you know, my first business at 18 years old. So for me I've always been a Go Go Go work, work work. But the parts that fulfill me it isn't necessarily the structure the parts that fill me are when I hug somebody and they're they say thank you for whatever it is I've given them sometimes it's just a hug sometimes it is my time and helping them but every little bit that fills my heart that makes me feel like I'm accomplished in my day and my accomplishments are what I'm striving for what fills my heart and and it's not it's not structure it's this chaotic grow build do be with people get out there and of course you know I love a good Sunday morning sleep in. But for the most part, I'm filling my heart now and that happens through the day to day of this service,
Sydney Williams 54:49
y'all I just whatever, she's fine, she's fire she does she's like honestly Cinde MacGugan Cassidy for President people like Mayor of Avalon nah, President United States shore Our Prime Minister of the world, whatever, I'll go there. Thank you so much for joining me.
Cinde 55:04
Thank you so much for having me.
Sydney Williams 55:06
oh my gosh, I am just I am honored to be in your orbit. I can't look at you because if I look at you that I won't be talking into the microphone and nobody will hear the words from my heart. So thank you. Thank you for believing in what I'm doing. I'm looking at you out the side of my eye. Thank you for the opportunity to come join you on this grand adventure for letting creating space for me and Barry to join your family owned woman ran business now we got to figure out how to say just ask the gals a Catalina backcountry, we just say as the gals or Barry. We'll figure it out. Like there's some there's some language to work with here. But in all reality. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you for being on the show. If you haven't already, go to Catalinabackcountry.com. Check out our services ask any questions you might have about this trail. And next week is our final week of Wellness in the Wilderness here on Voice America on the Epowerment Channel. I am really looking forward to sharing all my thoughts. It's just me next week, Barry might be joining to help me wrap some stuff up. But we're gonna be talking about everything we've got going on. So until next week, dream big, be kind and take really good care of yourselves and each other. We'll see you next week.
Announcer 56:19
Thanks for joining us on this week's show. We hope this episode has been a breath of fresh air for you and has inspired you to find your wellness in the wilderness. We will reconnect with nature and new again next week. Since 1984, sell your has existed to support your wildest adventures. Learn about their advanced insect repellents and family of technical Lightweight Water filters at sawyer.com