E10: Finding Wellness in the Catalina Backcountry with Barry Williams
The first time I followed Barry into the backcountry on Catalina Island in 2016. Thankfully, not my last time.
From the White Mountains of New Hampshire to the rugged backcountry of Catalina Island and everything in between, Barry Williams has been an outdoorist and educator in a professional capacity for the past 25+ years.
Between his career as a professional skydiver, Wilderness EMT, and now as co-founder of Hiking My Feelings, the essence of Barry's facilitation style is that of trust, patience, and the gift of belief. In this episode, we'll chat about Barry's intrinsic connection to nature, how hiking helped him get back to doing the things he loves following hip surgery, and how every adventure he's been on has prepared him for the one we're about to embark on here on the island.
IN THIS EPISODE:
This is the mountain Barry talks about in the episode, Copple Crown in Brookfield, New Hampshire. This is where he came to heal and get his life together after his hip surgery.
Barry’s favorite Alan Watts quote:
“We do not "come into" this world; we come out of it, as leaves from a tree. As the ocean "waves," the universe "peoples." Every individual is an expression of the whole realm of nature, a unique action of the total universe.” - Alan Watts
His outdoor adventures as a kid in New England
How a rare disease as a child led to a hip replacement in his early 30’s
Returning to nature after his surgery - how he found his version of Wellness in the Wilderness
As a former Safety & Training Advisor for the United States Parachute Association, how do the safety principles from skydiving translate to what he does now at Hiking My Feelings?
THE BIG NEWS: We’re new partners + boots on the ground with our pals at Catalina Backcountry!
What is Hiking My Feelings doing on the island? What do we have coming up this year?
What are we doing with Catalina Backcountry?
What’s this metaphor about Barry and George the bison?
CONNECT WITH BARRY + CATALINA BACKCOUNTRY:
LISTEN HERE:
SHOW TRANSCRIPT:
Please note, we use Otter.ai to transcribe episodes and while the technology is impressive, it’s not completely accurate. Please excuse any missed words, nonsensical sentences, and missed interpretations of foreign language below:
Announcer 00:00
Since 1984, sell your has existed to support your wildest adventures. Learn about their advanced insect repellents and family of technical Lightweight Water filters at sawyer.com. Welcome to Wellness in the Wilderness. Come with us on the trail of life as we inspire you to take a step outdoors to disconnect from the distractions and reconnect with yourself. Sydney Williams in her guests will motivate you to get active and get well. Now, here is Sydney.
Sydney Williams 00:38
All right, everybody, welcome to Wellness in the Wilderness. I'm your host Sydney Williams, author and founder of Hiking My Feelings and today I'm broadcasting live from Pimu aka Catalina Island, which is the ancestral lands of the Tongva people now known as Avalon, California. Last week, I said it was going to be just me, but I didn't want to be alone. I want someone to hold my hand because this is a big announcement. We're pretty excited about it. So today, I have my husband, co founder of Hiking My Feelings outdoorman extraordinaire and one of my favorite humans on this meh, my favorite human on this planet and my best friend, Mr. Barry Williams. So from the White Mountains of New Hampshire to the rugged backcountry of Catalina Island and everything in between. Barry Williams has been an outdoorsist educator in a professional capacity for the past 25 years. Between his career as a pet professional, skydiver, wilderness, EMT, and now co founder of Hiking My Feelings the essence of various facilitation style is that of trust patience and the gift of belief. In this episode, we'll be chatting about Barry's intrinsic connection to nature, how hiking helped him get back to doing the things he loves following hip surgery, and how every adventure he's been on has prepared him for the one we're about to embark on here on Catalina Island. Welcome to the show. Barry. Are you ready for a great day?
Barry Williams 01:46
Oh boy, am I. Well, isn't this something?
Sydney Williams 01:50
It is something what do you think? How are you feeling?
Barry Williams 01:52
Well, I'm usually watching this or actually listening to this from a distance that let you kind of do your thing and, and in peace. So it's interesting to actually watch you work your magic here. So hopefully I do all right here,
Sydney Williams 02:06
I think you're gonna be just fine. It's a conversation amongst friends. And for anybody listening. On this episode. In particular, we welcome your calls, whether you've known Barry from his wee days in New England or his days as a skydiver, or now at Hiking My Feelings. And you want to just say, Hey, see what's up, we'd love to hear from you. So, Barry, let's start at the beginning. You've said it, as long as I've known you that we aren't separate from nature, we're part of it. I know, you didn't come up with that quote. And I know that that's ancestral knowledge that's been passed down for generations, since time immemorial. But I know this is especially for true for you growing up in New Hampshire. So to kick us off, tell me a little bit about your experiences growing up in the outdoors in New England, and how they have shaped the life you're living today?
Barry Williams 02:50
Well, I think one of my favorite quotes comes from Alan Watts, where he says that we're no separate from nature as a wave is from the ocean. And if you think about it, you know, we're just kind of all recycled bits and pieces that kind of go through so my personal opinion, is that the more disconnected we are from nature, the more dis ease that we have, and and it just kind of creates chaos in our lives. So getting back to nature from where I started up in New Hampshire is really, it's been healthy for me, and it's been healthy, obviously, for you. But I grew up on the seacoast in New Hampshire, which is a great spot is Dover, New Hampshire. So it was about I don't know, about 30 minutes from the ocean, maybe about 45 minutes from the Lakes Region, maybe about an hour into the into the mountains, an hour and a half into the White Mountains. And, and when I look back on it, in today's world, the stuff that I did as a kid, my parents, if I would have grown up today, my parents are probably in jail for like, neglect.
Sydney Williams 03:55
It's funny, I feel like everybody kind of talks about that. Like, I think about how I used to go out and we just we had a literal dinner bell and like, come home before the streetlights come on. But you, you on the other hand, you had this big forest behind your house and your dad set you up on kind of like wayfinding expeditions and stuff like that. So tell me a little bit about the stuff that you did as a kid that would now have poor Howard and Lydia arrested.
Barry Williams 04:17
Yeah. Yeah. So we were fortunate enough to have like a nice piece of property with a river behind us and like all these hiking trails that would go out into like, into really nowhere, because at that time in Dover, that area wasn't really as developed as it is today. So I would go out and I would be miles out in the wilderness completely by myself or with my kids, or with my kid friends, you know, just out there doing whatever we did, but like, Man, I can think about if I was an adult, and I was six miles out in the wilderness, and I just saw random child running around. Like, who's looking out after you you know, like, who you Who's your parents? And who do I need to call here? So? Yeah, so one of the things my, my dad used to do, I mean, I grew up skiing and just kind of hiking and camping and we do canoe camping down the Saco river with my folks, we do that every summer. But one of the things my dad used to do is on these hiking trails that looped around the river behind our house, we'd he'd do like orienteering kind of courses. And it wasn't like a race because we didn't really have anybody to like compete with it wasn't, it was just for the fun of doing it. So if you aren't familiar with orienteering, it's like, you have a map, you have a compass, and you just kind of draw all these things. It's almost like a treasure hunting expedition. So, you know, you go to the one point, and then that would have your clues to the next point. It's kind of like that Amazing Race show on TV. So, you know, I just grew up running around getting dirty, you know, doing stupid stuff, you know, by the river, and, you know, not, you know, trying to get lost. Yeah.
Sydney Williams 06:08
Well, before we set up the description for this episode, yesterday, in our Wellness in the Wilderness newsletter, I picked this picture of George the bison, who's a bison that lives on Catalina and we'll kind of talk a little bit more about him later. But I was trying to figure out this like metaphor between the picture of the bison and how when we look at a picture, especially this picture, there's it's this bison, it's like coming up to the crest of a hill. And how if we looked at it, and like one point in time, we'd be like, Oh, look, he's so close to the top. And we might not ever think about it again. And when I was trying to explain what I was trying to, like, wrap my head around my sight you're like, so I'm the bison. So the bison that we're talking about? His name is George he's a local legend. He lives on the ridge by
Barry Williams 06:49
According to the lady at the donut shop.
Sydney Williams 06:51
Right? So local legend to one person, and we've just kind of run with it. But George has a gimpy leg. And I think maybe that's why you identified yourself as the bison if we're making a comparison between George the bison and Barry the human for this episode and how you found healing in nature. Talk to me a little bit about growing up in and the Legg-Perthes disease and how that kind of led to your hip replacement.
Barry Williams 07:16
Yeah, so for the listeners, I'm sure you're seeing Forrest Gump. Alright, so I don't know if Forrest Gump had the same disease I had when I was a kid. But essentially, it was the same thing. I think it was in nursery school or kindergarten, one of those, you know, really formative years where I remember one day like my, my parents were like, Why are you limping? And I was like, I'm not limping. Like, no, you're limping. And so they brought me in to get checked out by a doctor. And turns out I had I had Legg Perthes disease. And I've only ever met one other person in my life actually have it, but essentially what it looks like it looked like what Forrest Gump had, like he had braces on his legs and stuff. So for me, what they did is they actually put me in traction when I was in nursery school or kindergarten for like six months, down in Boston. Not New Hampshire in Boston. So I was like, you know, it's kind of by myself, and you know, my parents would come down and visit but like, you know, traveling an hour and a half, you know, especially with Boston traffic. You know, they probably weren't able to get down as much. So it was a it was kind of a formative time in my life. But to have your legs just kind of like propped up essentially, what happens with this disease is, and they don't know what causes it, but essentially, it's the ball, the femur doesn't get enough blood circulation. So what happens is, the femur itself becomes soft. So instead of a round ball, mine actually turned into a mushroom. So, so really kind of soften it up. So you know, one leg is shorter than the other. So what they did is they put me in traction to, you know, allow the hip bone actually, you know, try and grow properly without all that pressure on it. So after six months of that, they put me in leg braces for several years. So I was that kid in school.
Sydney Williams 09:25
Oh,
Barry Williams 09:26
yeah. But that being said, I was I was still I think it was third grade champion of the obstacle course. I had the record.
Sydney Williams 09:34
Yeah, you did.
Barry Williams 09:35
At Woodman Park School in Dover, New Hampshire. I had the record. I don't know if it still stands, but I did it with leg braces on. So yeah, so I'll never forget actually. I think when they actually took the braces off, the doctor was like, I'll never forget it. He's like, you'll be walking with a cane by the time you're 25.
Sydney Williams 09:58
And were you?
Barry Williams 09:59
No Oh, no, I think it's 25 I was jumping out of planes. So, yeah, so I think I actually made it to 32 before my hip gave out, and really what what what happened was I was doing a lot of like, work at the drop zone. I was like chainsawing a bunch of brush down in the fall just to kind of clear things up. And it was just the repetitive bending down and squatting down to you know, use a chainsaw. tore a quarter size chunk of cartilage out of my hip. Yeah, so I was bone on bone and like, housebound for a while and like taking they had me on fentanyl patches, and Percocet and Vicodin, I couldn't really walk up the stairs. I couldn't sit in the car for longer than 15 minutes without like, you know, popping Vicodin or Percocet on top of the fentanyl, like they were Pez, you know. So, yeah, that's, that's the hip.
Sydney Williams 10:59
Yeah. So you are in all this pain, they've got you loaded up on these meds. And talk to me about the surgery that you had and the status of that surgery at the time?
Barry Williams 11:11
Well, it was interesting. I went and saw I think three or four doctors, one of them was the doctor from the Celtics. And none of them wanted to operate on me.
Sydney Williams 11:25
Why was that?
Barry Williams 11:26
Because I had CAT scans, bone scans, MRIs, X rays all sorts of stuff it didn't show that quarter size chunk of cartilage missing. So they were like, there's no medical reason for us to actually give you this
Sydney Williams 11:39
because you were how old?
11:44
32? Like, early 30s. Yeah, early 30s.
Sydney Williams 11:48
So not like fall down, break a hip. The general thing that gets you into that kind of surgery, like the clear cut things for like elderly folks, right? Yeah, you're 30 something and they're like, get bent.
Barry Williams 12:01
Well, they knew I had this disease. And they, you know, they figured something was going on. But I mean, I was getting steroid shots into my hip. I mean, this is a problem. Like I couldn't work. I was housebound. Yeah. So I ended up finding a doctor down in Myrtle Beach somewhere near there. And he's like, there's no medical reason for us to give you this. And I was like, all right. And well, the surgery that he was able to do is at the time, it was experimental. It's hip resurfacing, where essentially, they just take the ball, they core it into a cylinder, put a new cap on it, and then put a new socket in my hip, instead of like, instead of a traditional hip implant that would chop off the top of your femur shove a rod down in there. Yeah, you know, a little more gentle. Yeah. And it was actually geared towards younger people like me. And the great thing was about it, and still to this day is there's no real restrictions, once you have the surgery, because with a traditional hip implant, you're not supposed to carry over X amount of weight, because it's much easier to dislocate. And so they want to conserve as much bone as possible. So later on down the road, if I do need to get another hip replacement, they can go in and do a traditional one. So yeah, he was like, Well, I mean, I had a tentative appointment to get a traditional hip implant, which I didn't really want to do. But he's like, he's like, I don't want to give you this surgery. And I was like, Well, alright, well, I need to do something because I can't live like this. So I guess I'm just gonna get a traditional hip implant. He's like, Well, hold on. We got an opening on like, Tuesday. Can you fly down here? I was like, yeah. So you know, I got down there and they did all their, you know, the pre screening and stuff and they're like, Oh, my God, I really wish you would have told me that you would have been on fentanyl and all these other painkillers. He's like, you're gonna have DTs,
Sydney Williams 14:01
what is DTs,
Barry Williams 14:02
delirium tremens? Oh, like severe withdrawals. Oh, my, like, you know, where you start seeing stuff and like, you know, bugs are crawling out of your skin and right, you got the shakes and the tremors. And turns out that, you know, I had that surgery and I woke up. I remember it was like, I looked at the clock as soon as I woke up, and it was, it was 420 in the afternoon, and I was like, wow, this is alright, because I'm still kind of doped up from the surgery but I was like, the pain was gone. And I was like, Ah, this is great. So after that long story short, because it was down in Myrtle Beach. They had me in the, in the hospital, and then they you know, had me up and walking and going upstairs like hours after the surgery. And then I think they kept me overnight for one night just to make sure you know, no blood clots or anything like that. And then they had me stay in the hotel across the street, just for the next night to make sure everything's cool. And then they put me on a plane.
Sydney Williams 15:07
Wow.
Barry Williams 15:07
And they said, Go
Sydney Williams 15:10
Go forth young man.
Barry Williams 15:11
Oh, I mean, they did not give me any, like, I did not have a physical therapist or nothing.
Sydney Williams 15:16
And so when, after the surgery, the doctor was like, Oh, holy cow, because all the things that didn't come up on the CAT scan that missing piece of cartilage, like, what did they ever say about that? Yeah, well, he walked into the room, I was like how did it look in there. And he's like, You must have been in excruciating pain. I'm like, no kidding. Because I'll tell you, man, like, they were putting, like, six inch needles directly into my hip socket, like, into my groin, oh, my God, you know, and like, I'm not doing this for fun. I'm not like a, you know, pill seeker or anything like that, you know? Like, this was like, you know, the cure was kind of worse than what I was dealing with. But it was it was pretty gnarly. But he was like, A, you must have been you were on bone on bone. And I'm sure there's a lot of people out there that can relate or something like that. But like, it was just it was absolute nightmare. Yeah, well, and to that effect, like, the drugs you listed off you if you were a different person, or if this was a different time, or if you weren't in as much pain as you were in that could have been like a very easily could have trans transition into like an opiate addiction, right. Like, they had you on everything. But because it was so you were in so much pain, like I, the thing I'm thinking of is like when you had your neck surgery, and you were in so much pain, and they're like, oh, wow, this like, this is shocking. And it's like, Well, is it because like i i said i was in pain, like I'm not lying? So was it like validating to hear that from the doctor and just be like, yeah, everything I said I was feeling now it's been medically recognized.
Barry Williams 16:52
Yeah, I mean, you know, I don't really hold them at fault for any of it. Because the all the tests didn't show it. So it is what it is. But like, I don't think of myself as somebody who wants to have major surgery for the fun of drugs.
Sydney Williams 17:08
That's a long play.
Barry Williams 17:09
It really is. But yeah, no, I mean, I had like, for the, you know, he's like, you can have withdrawals and stuff. And I was like, Well, I think after the surgery, I think I had one Percocet. Yeah. And then that was that, like, I didn't have any withdrawals. I didn't have any cravings. I didn't have anything like that. Because, you know, if you're, if you're in the medical field, and I worked as an EMT, so I kind of can speak on it, I think is you know, if you actually need these drugs, you know, because it never got me high. It made me so I was able to walk up the stairs, right. You know, you know, I just it wasn't something that I was dependent upon, but it was because it almost took me two years to get that surgery. So it was two years of, you know, being housebound.
Sydney Williams 17:58
Wow.
Barry Williams 17:59
Yeah.
Sydney Williams 17:59
Oh, my goodness, well, as part of this whole thing. As we get ready for this next break, one of the roles that Barry has held in his career in education in the outdoors, was as a skydiving instructor, and he were a professional skydiver for 17 years. 16-17 years. And as part of that, you were also a safety and training advisor for the United States Parachute Association. So when we get back, we're going to talk about Barry's safety mindset, kind of tapping back into that early exposure as a child being feral in the woods, with the Williams clan, and then going into how that translates to what we do today and Hiking My Feelings. So don't go away. We'll be right back. And when we do come back, give us a call. Shout out Barry say hey, don't go anywhere. We'll be right back with Barry Williams.
Announcer 19:06
Have you ever spoken unkind to yourself? Do you realize when you do? Are you ready to make changes but find yourself completely paralyzed by the choices in front of you. We live in a hyper connected always on world. And frankly, it's exhausting. Let's make time to disconnect from the distractions and reconnect with yourself. Hiking My Feelings exists to help people discover the healing power of nature. kickstart your healing journey and grab a copy of the book that started our movement, hiking my feelings, stepping into the healing power of nature, named one of Audible's best hiking audiobooks and available wherever books are sold. Visit Hikingmyfeelings.org today to learn more. Sawyer is more than an outdoor company. Every solar product you buy, contributes to our common humanity, bringing Sawyer water filtration systems to people in need all around the world. Enjoy 2022 Alone 260,000 households in over 45 countries received clean drinking water through Sawyer filters. Over the past 10 years, we've teamed up with over 140 charities in 80 countries to provide long term sustainable relief, domestically, internationally and in disaster situations. Together, we're saving millions of lives. Thank you. Ready to find your Wellness in the Wilderness, and look no further than Hiking My Feelings through a combination of community and self discovery. Our programs are designed to give you the space and support to connect lifestyles. If you're looking to figure out who you are underneath the stories you've been given, and are ready to redesign the map of where you're headed. With actionable steps and opportunities to dream big. We're here to walk alongside you. Whether you're a seasoned adventure enthusiast, or brand new to the healing power of nature. We've got your back. Visit hikingmyfeelings.org today to download our free trail thoughts worksheets, and learn more about Hiking My Feelings. It's your world motivates change, succeed. Voice America empowerment.com. You're listening to Wellness in the Wilderness with Sydney Williams. Have a question for Sydney and her guests. Join us on the show at 888-346-9141. That's 888-346-9141 Now back to the show with Sydney.
Sydney Williams 21:43
Welcome back to Wellness in the Wilderness. I'm your host Sydney Williams and I'm here with Barry Williams. My husband my best friend my partner in crime my adventure buddy for life. Ah, you before the break, we were talking about how Barry grew up feral in New England, and also how he arrived at the destination of having a hip replacement surgery in his early 30s. And one thing given that this show is called Wellness in the Wilderness, I think this is a great time to talk about your version of finding Wellness in the Wilderness. Talk to me a little bit about what happened once you got home shipped back from the Carolinas after your hip surgery. How do you get back up on your feet and get out there?
Barry Williams 22:23
Well, it was actually pretty simple. It was hiking.
Sydney Williams 22:25
Nice.
Barry Williams 22:27
Well at the time I was living up in just south of like North Conway. So up in like the really like wooded areas where there's mountains and lakes and everything's really nice. So they gave me like you gotta be on working or walking with crutches or a cane for X amount of weeks, I think it was like four weeks or six weeks or something. And then after that they're like, just go ahead and do what you feel comfortable with. As much as you can physically tolerate. So you know, there aren't a lot of gyms up in Wakefield, New Hampshire. So the closest gym I had was a mountain it was copple crown mountain, and which I took you when we were up in New England. You're the only person I've ever hiked that with. So you're welcome. But that was that was my trail of healing. And it was I was like, like four miles up or down. Not too big. And nobody knows about this trail. And it was just me and my dog at the time. And I'd go out every other day and just go hike this thing. And I do as much as I could. And it was just like beautiful views and there's nobody there like nobody uses this trail and it was just get to the top and you overlook like the entire valley and just see all these trees and see absolutely nothing but trees. And it had like the one of the coolest like sitting rocks, you'll ever see it. It was just a great place just to hang out and kind of get my life together. Because, you know, at the time I couldn't skydive, and in with my first marriage, things weren't going well there and it was just a nightmare. And that's you know, that's what gave me the time to really kind of get out and think about, you know what I want to be when I grow up and shortly thereafter that I actually took my wilderness EMT course up in North Conway at solo
Sydney Williams 24:25
shout out stone hearth open learning opportunity.
Barry Williams 24:27
Yeah. So the oldest continually operating wilderness medicine facility in the country, and probably the world. So so that was like a month long course. And so I really kind of really kickstarted my love for the wilderness and being out in nature and just like the power of it, and just that time alone. It was just really really good for me.
Sydney Williams 24:54
So for people that know you today present day they know Barry who is like Just chill. Beyond Belief like you are like, the coolest cucumber I've ever met, you're super present, you're really like grounded. Has that always been the case like, or did or did this like chapter of healing on copple crown kind of bring that out of you
Barry Williams 25:15
No, at that actually, that was the timeframe where things really started changing, I started spending a lot more time outdoors, and then you know, the relationship falling apart and kind of figuring things out. That is when I really started. Because of spending so much time outdoors, the ability to kind of work on myself and become the person that I am today. Yeah, the person that you would be happy to hike with. Because before I'd only hike by myself, you know, and I liked it that way. And I still do to this day, you know, because it just gives me time to think and I or, or lack thereof, to be honest with you. Because hiking, for me is a meditation, and it's just, it's just becoming one with the universe, you know, being out there, you know, without hearing any planes or hearing any cars, or like, you know, job things and whatnot. So it's just, that's, that's my happy place.
Sydney Williams 26:09
So when you were working in skydiving, and you were a safety and training advisor for the United States Parachute Association at the different drop zones that you were working with? What are some of the lessons from skydiving or some of the inspiration and what we do today at Hiking My Feelings that translates from your time teaching safety, advocating for safety and like being the face of safety and skydiving?
Barry Williams 26:34
So, I mean, I taught people to skydive for 16-17 years and I wasn't doing tandems where you have you know, somebody strapped to the front of you? I'm actually teaching six, eight hour course. And the student has their own parachute.
Sydney Williams 26:49
Three to four hours if you're Sydney Williams, right. But for the average bear,
Barry Williams 26:53
well, that that evening was superior instruction, I think. So, you know, it's really about details and understanding how people learn because everybody learns differently. And really going back to basics, because the stuff that you teach in a first jump course is really the basics, and understanding how things work. And and I think that's one of the most important things because if you don't have a good foundation, you can't really build a solid building on top of it. And I think some of it is, is that and but when it pertains to being outdoors and kind of transferring that skill to being outside. I think going back to basics, this is an important thing in relation to when I started back in my day.
Sydney Williams 27:48
Here we go.
Barry Williams 27:49
Yeah, here we go. Buckle up. You know, I didn't have GPS, right. So I actually was downloading Maps was like turn by turn, like Mapquest type stuff on these trails.
Sydney Williams 28:03
Whereas Yeah, so it's like the Map Quest to get to the trail, but then also, like, walk 1.3 miles when you get to the tree, take a left like, right.
Barry Williams 28:11
That's exactly. That's exactly what it was like, you know, so you know, I don't really want to date myself on that. But it's like, there's so much that can go wrong out there. And I think that's where the yin and yang of Hiking My Feelings like you are the brilliant mind behind it.
Sydney Williams 28:34
And the super excited young blood getting, I'm representing all the newbies out there and the transition from like, I've never done this before, let me break in my shoes in my hiking or in my standing desk right to now I climb out with and I'm kind of a badass. Yeah, but like, my youthful energy as far as like my exposure to the outdoors, combined with your brilliance in your safety foundation that you've been teaching, like literally your entire adult life.
Barry Williams 29:00
Yeah, well, I think I think it's my ability to see the future.
Sydney Williams 29:04
Tell me more.
Barry Williams 29:04
Well, you know, like with skydiving, it got to the point where I was, I was getting really good at predicting who was going to die next. To the point where I was actually I went up to certain individuals and be like, if you keep doing what you're doing, you're going to die.
Sydney Williams 29:19
Yeah.
Barry Williams 29:20
And I had those conversations. And it's like, it obviously, is the safety and training visors, my job to kind of keep everybody safe. And for the most part, it was on the dropzone everybody was safe, you're checking people's gear and you're watching the winds and the weather and you know, traffic and all sorts of stuff that goes along with that. But it's very hard to invent a new way to die skydiving,
Sydney Williams 29:47
right.
Barry Williams 29:47
And it's very hard to invent a new way to die in the outdoors. So, you know, people think they want to be real creative, but they're not you You know, if you if you look at the skydiving incident reports, it's all the same stuff. Yeah, it's people pushing past their limits past their gear limits their skill sets. And usually when we see accidents in the outdoors, it's the same thing. They're not prepared.
Sydney Williams 30:18
You don't know what you don't know.
Barry Williams 30:19
Right? Dunning Kruger effect? Yes. Right? People don't know what they don't know. So they had that what was uh, what was the what was the term that you use?
Sydney Williams 30:28
delusional confidence.
Barry Williams 30:29
delusional confidence, same thing. So, you know, it's my job to kind of was to temper them and like, if there is an accident, deconstruct it, figure out how it happened and, and how to learn from it and spread that knowledge. But I how it relates to the outdoors. And we kind of joke every once in a while, because every time we go out me and you or with a group, it's we kind of joke that it's the Hiking My Feelings, search and rescue, right? Because it's very rare. Do we go out on a trail unless it's a trail that there's nobody on. But when we see other people out there, there's usually somebody that's in trouble in one form or another, they're lost? They don't know where they're at? Or how they got there. Yeah. You got people that prepare for their hike by bringing a six pack of white claw.
Sydney Williams 31:19
Shout out three sisters, three sisters what up San Diego?
Barry Williams 31:22
Yep. And, you know, living near three sisters, we, I mean, the night before we moved out here to Catalina there was they rescued what three people with a helicopter? So, you know, it's just, you know, the skills are the same. And when you see these things happen. It's nothing new. And it's all preventable. Yeah, that's the thing, you know, and then people don't know what they don't know. And that's just simple education, you know? Yeah. So
Sydney Williams 31:54
Well, when I think about the translation of skills from skydiving to outdoors, especially since in my specific, unique case, you've been my instructor for both. So what I take away from skydiving that I've applied to the outdoors is like that spatial awareness, like how you would tell us how we were taught how to operate and walk around an aircraft, whether the props were spinning or not, gave me like a foundation to look around and like be aware of the space that I'm occupying on the trail and like just paying attention to more stuff. And I think one of the best things that came out of skydiving, as far as our programming for Hiking My Feelings is how you've taken what you used to do in skydiving and applied it to the outdoors through your safety and training meetings is a function of blaze your own trail self love. Do you want to talk a little bit about the adventure planner sheet where that came from? And how that was inspired by skydiving and how that translates to outdoor preparedness?
Barry Williams 32:46
Absolutely.
Sydney Williams 32:47
Fantastic. Let's go.
Barry Williams 32:48
Okay. So, at least from the skydiving perspective, a lot of the training and procedures and stuff comes from the aviation industry, like we literally, you know, when you walk through a gear check to check your parachute, you know, you check it three times, and you do it in a systematic order, you do it the same way every time. And that's really about creating repetition, so you don't miss anything. And just, you just getting good habits. So what I did with the planning sheet is I took like, a logbook entry for like a pilot, and really kind of just kind of swapped it over to an outdoor trip. So whether it's a day trip or a multi legged backpacking trip, you know, you have all the details like, right, what time does the sun come out? What time is the sunset? What's the weather? How many hours a day? How many hours in the day? Do I have to actually complete? What's the elevation change what you know, so you can actually really kind of put the nuts and bolts of it like, Alright, I know that I walk X amount of miles in a certain amount of time, and this trail is this many miles. So I should have, you know, it's approximately going to take me about, you know, they say five hours or whatever. So I should have plenty of daylight. And you know, just coming up with a list of all the gear, what kind of footwear, you know, leaving your contact information to for other people so they know where you're going. And you can actually hand them that like, Hey, I'm hiking this trail. This is the route I'm gonna go. So you know, if I don't have a Garmin or something to do SOS with or because I'm going to be out of cell phone range. This is where I'm at. So I'm not really inventing anything new. I'm just applying it to the outdoors.
Sydney Williams 34:41
Yeah, and I love that. And I think too, if we think about how I learned how to skydive, and then how you helped me prepare or frankly, how you helped me not prepare for my first backpacking trip. Um, talk to me a little bit about like, the difference. I kind of feel like you had an opportunity like, if you were anybody else, you could have helicopter parented me on this backpacking trip, you could have mansplained how the outdoors works. But you let me figure it out enough for myself to where I didn't put myself in jeopardy. But I also learned some lessons, what were some of the things that I packed that you giggled about are some of the actions I was taking to prepare for my first trip on the trans Catalina trail back in 2016. That maybe you wouldn't recommend other people follow?
Barry Williams 35:24
I understand that everybody learns differently. But I I think, for me, personally, I need to do things. Just because I think it's the right way to do it may not be the right way. But it usually is. I'll just say that.
Sydney Williams 35:41
Barry's always right in case you haven't figured it out.
Barry Williams 35:44
But I think one of the best educational tools is pain. And now I'm not I'm certainly not going to let anybody get into a situation where it's gonna be dangerous, or they're gonna get hurt terribly bad. In your case. But yeah, when you were standing at your standing desk, and wearing your hiking boots, and I'm kinda like, what are you doing? I'm breaking in my hiking boots. No you're not. I just kind of walked out. And then you brought your tarot cards, and you brought like, six changes of clothes.
Sydney Williams 36:22
I was ready for the fashion police to show up with the Rangers.
Barry Williams 36:25
Right? And so I let you roll with it.
Sydney Williams 36:29
How'd that work out for me?
Barry Williams 36:30
You tell me
Sydney Williams 36:31
pretty good I'd say. I mean,
Barry Williams 36:33
Did you you learn? Was it educational?
Sydney Williams 36:35
It was
Barry Williams 36:35
okay.
Sydney Williams 36:36
And well. We've through a lot of things. So Barry's 11 years older than me. And in a lot of ways, I'm like, I turned to Barry. And I'm like, so when you were my age, where were you at? And I think a lot of things that are passed on to me, like I learned a lot through observing how you work and how you move through the world. But sometimes, like I well, I would have appreciated maybe like a pro tip about the shoes and not just like no you're not and then an exit. I I am grateful for that opportunity. Because now I found shoes that I absolutely love. I've got it dialed in to my feet specifically and life is good. So yeah, well, cool. So we moved to Catalina. Yeah, yeah, we moved here. January 9, today is January 31. So we've been here for almost a month. And we've been kind of teasing that we're like doing some cool stuff. So before we go to the break, in a couple words, like how's it been? Do you like it here?
Barry Williams 37:31
Love it here.
Sydney Williams 37:32
What's your favorite thing so far? You can break it up into categories if you need to.
Barry Williams 37:37
Yeah, well, I mean, the wildlife is amazing. Yeah, the weather's been boring. The rain that we've had has been awesome. Yeah. And I'm really starting to get used to the people. Yep. Because they're interesting. Yeah, very interesting. Yeah.
Sydney Williams 37:53
we'll talk a little bit more about some of the interesting things we've seen. So what we're doing so we got a big announcement coming up in this next segment, if you're listening and you want to call in and say hey, or share what you're grateful for, give us a call at 888-346-9141. When we get back, we've got a big announcement. And just because Barry's here doesn't mean that we're having babies, so I'm gonna go ahead and cancel that as guesses that you might be making no babies for Sydney and Barry. It's a different announcement. And we'll share a little bit more about what we've got going on in Catalina Island when we get back after the break. Stay tuned. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back.
Announcer 38:40
Ready to find your Wellness in the Wilderness and look no further than Hiking My Feelings through a combination of community and self discovery. Our programs are designed to give you the space and support to connect life starts. If you're looking to figure out who you are underneath the stories you've been given, and are ready to redesign the map of where you're headed with actionable steps and opportunities to dream big. We're here to walk alongside you. Whether you're a seasoned adventure enthusiast, or brand new to the healing power of nature. We've got your back. Visit hikingmyfeelings.org today to download our free trail thoughts worksheets and learn more about Hiking My Feelings. Sawyer is more than an outdoor company. Every Sawyer product you buy, contributes to our common humanity, bringing Sawyer water filtration systems to people in need all around the world. In just 2022 alone. 260,000 households in over 45 countries received clean drinking water through Sawyer filters. Over the past 10 years, we've teamed up with over 140 charities in 80 countries to provide long term sustainable relief domestically, internationally and in disaster situations. Together, we're saving millions of lives. Thank you. Have you ever spoken unkindly to yourself. Do you realize when you do, are you ready to make changes, but find yourself completely paralyzed by the choices in front of you. We live in a hyper connected always on world. And frankly, it's exhausting. Let's make time to disconnect from the distractions and reconnect with yourself. Hiking My Feelings exists to help people discover the healing power of nature. kickstart your healing journey and grab a copy of the book that started our movement, Hiking My Feelings, stepping into the healing power of nature, named one of audibles best hiking audiobooks and available wherever books are sold. Visit hikingmyfeelings.org today to learn more. It's your world, motivate, change, succeed. Voice America empowerment.com. You're listening to Wellness in the Wilderness with Sydney Williams, have a question for Sydney and her guests. Join us on the show at 888-346-9141. That's 888-346-9141 Now back to the show with Sydney.
Sydney Williams 41:17
All right, everybody. Welcome back to Wellness in the Wilderness. I'm Sydney This is hard with Barry in the room, but I love it. Because he gives me these looks like you're cute. And I usually listen to this from far away. So before the break, we were talking about how we've been translating Barry's skills from skydiving into the outdoors, not reinventing the wheel, just making what we already know applicable and speaking a new but not foreign language. And we before the break, we were talking about the planning sheet that we have, we talked about how we moved to Catalina Island, Barry's loving the wildlife. He's loving the people that we're seeing and meeting here. And so announcement time. Before we do that, let's talk a little bit about what Hiking My Feelings is doing on Catalina Island. So over the years we have like this, it's kind of wild to think about. So I talked to you a little bit about this in my solo episode, episode four, where I just kind of like gave the history of our experiences on Catalina Island. And if I think back to where we were in 2016, where we were in 2018. When I got off this trail, like the first contact that I made when I got back to cell reception in Two Harbors after our trip in 2018 was to the Catalina Island Conservancy. And I was like, listen, we this trail is just spectacular. And unless y'all are trying to keep it a secret, I'd love to do my part and help bring awareness to this trail help protect this trail, conserve it for future generations. So more people can have the same experiences that I've had. And if I'm lucky enough, I'd love to facilitate the same kind of conditions that I had for my backpacking trips, which with Barry was a good solid foundation, non judgement, a whole lot of fun and some healing had along the way. So as far as what Hiking My Feelings is doing here, this is kind of we've like, in the years since we started Hiking My Feelings and leading up to this, we've traveled around the country two, three times, talking about the trans Catalina trail, how much it's changed my life, how much I love it. All the incredible experiences that we've had here, through my speaking tour with a different REI store as of 2019 60 different Rei stores and 70 Something hikes, talking about the healing power of nature, specifically on Catalina Island. And we wrote, we wrote the book, I wrote the book. So like this island has been a huge part of what we've been doing. And that introduction to REI for that tour came from the conservancy. So we've been out here just kind of like slinging the good word about Catalina Island and all things recreation out here. And now that we're here, it's kind of a nice pause for us. And that over the last four and a half years, we've been building out some really incredible programs between our blaze your own trail to self love program, which we've got another class coming up starting in March. So stay tuned for more information about that. Our retreats that are based on the modules within blaze your own trail to self love, three of which that we've hosted here, and we've got another big one that we're cooking up for later this fall. More information on that coming soon as well. But so for us that Hiking My Feelings now that we have a home base, I mean, we've been going around the country, we've done like three laps around the US and we and every single time people are like, well, this is awesome. But now you're leaving, like where do we go? And at the time, we thought, Oh, well, maybe we should build a retreat center. And then we realized, like what a heavy lift that was financially and kind of put that on the backburner and then we thought about oh, well, maybe we should do hiking chapters and like there's somebody in Seattle who hosts like Hiking My Feelings hikes and like all these different like, areas around the country. But now that we're here, we're like, well, shoot, we've been telling everybody I've got the trans Catalina trail is why don't we just kind of hang out here, run the programs that we already have in existence and start to like really set a foundation for Hiking My Feelings on the island, and how we can start to to build relationships with other organizations, other businesses on the island, how we can bring more people here how we can make hiking and backpacking on the trans Catalina trail more accessible, like what are the things that Hiking My Feelings can do to facilitate this experience for other people. So in the absence of going on a tour, which, in the grand scheme of all things, Hiking My Feelings, like Barry is the one that coordinates the trips. He's the one that plans the routes. He's the one that does the driving. He's the one that picks the hikes. He's the one that picks the backpacking trips, like Barry does so much for this organization. And now that we're not going on some massive tour like we do still have some retreats in Sequoia this summer that we're excited to open up registration for soon. But with all this extra time that isn't being poured into driving around the country and coordinating a nationwide tour, we have some time to like support another business on the island. So big announcement want to do a drum roll, lets do a drum roll. So we are happy to share that we were invited by Cinde MacGugan Cassidy to join the team at Catalina backcountry as her new partners boots on the ground. The friendly faces that you'll see when you come to the island and utilize Catalina Backcountry services so Barry, do. You want to talk a little bit about what we've been up to and some of the stuff that we've got looking future forward as far as what we're doing with Backcountry?
Barry Williams 46:17
Yeah. So Backcountry are, the people that support us when we do our retreats across the island, so they do like gear hauls, they do catering. They set up tents. And they also, now we we lead hikes. Yeah. So we're doing, you know, all the things that we enjoy doing, but we're actually able to share this island with people that are coming out here to enjoy it. Yeah. So we are leading some short day hikes. In and around Avalon, we're doing some stuff at the airport, we go down into little harbor from the airport, we you know, we tell people where all the cookies are at and all the good places to get seafood. And we would you know, just supporting people that want to hike this trail by, you know, either hauling gear or setting up tents. Or you may even get some some some cooking from a award winning chef.
Sydney Williams 47:10
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, and I think it's a really cool opportunity, one for us to support Cinde in this. And this is a business that she bought, it was already in, in business on the island when she was here. And then the founders of that Catalina Backcountry kind of took a back seat or took a back step from the business. And the history of it is just really cool. And Cinde's vision and her reason for picking up the business and what she wants to do with it and how this kind of ties into how she's giving back to the island as well is really inspiring, and I gotta get Cinde on the show. So first of all, Cinde, if you're listening, tell me a day that you're free. And we'll chat about the history of Catalina Backcountry. But I think on a bigger scale, like one of the things what this opportunity gives us a couple of different things that we can work with one. The thing that I like most about it is these are folks that are already traveling to the islands, so they don't need to be convinced here to come here. So they're looking to have an adventure, they find Catalina Backcountry, they're coming there ready to go, versus us doing a retreat and all of our programming and really digging into like the mental health aspects and the wellness aspects of spending time outside. We're literally just showing people all the really cool stuff on this island. And I think it's a cool opportunity to enjoy the outdoors share the wonder that is Catalina Island without it having to be a Hiking My Feelings thing. And I think that that's really cool to have like a little bit of separation from that where it can be like just straight up outdoorsy, fun and or come the full Hiking My Feelings program. Thoughts on that.
Barry Williams 48:52
I just what immediately came to mind is at the end of office space, where they're at the end, and they're like, yep, getting outside, get some exercise, you know, life's pretty good. I think he throws a few expletives in there. But you know, it's it's, it's great to be out here and just like see these bison and they're just so majestic. And these Catalina Island Fox, and it's just it's great to be out here. Yeah, absolutely. Great.
Sydney Williams 49:21
Yeah. So as a function of what we've been doing to get ramped up for some of the guided hikes and tours that we're offering. The first hike that we did, after we moved here was on the original first section of the trans Catalina trail. And it was awesome. The east end of the island is so so cool. What are your thoughts on some of these other sections and how like for folks that aren't ready to backpack that might be listening to like What's this TCT all about? Like, how do I get on here? What can I look forward to what are some of the things that you're most excited about from an accessibility standpoint? Like you don't have to do the whole TCT. What are some of the things that you're excited about from like an introduction to the TCT perspective. Well, that's, that's what we've been doing. Since we got here. We're just kind of scouting all these kind of local trails out of Avalon. So if you're like, on a cruise ship or something, or you just you know, you're spending time in Avalon, because that's where everybody is. And that's where the hotels are, for the most part. I mean, there's two harbors, but predominately Avalon, but like some of these trails that were were on, we were just talking about it yesterday that in all reality, you could probably take a wheelchair out there. You know, they're even if they're dirt, like there's some of the trails that we're gonna we're gonna do hikes on that are paved, that are these stunning views, and there's some elevation but if, if you think you can push somebody up there on a wheelchair, you could you could do it even on the dirt stuff. Yeah. And that's, you know, so we're gonna have everything from like, I think that one hour hike is like 2.2 miles, something like that. small, little quick, you know, few hour excursion all the way up to, you know, 14 miles just out of the city Avalon. And you know, we can take people to Wrigley memorial, the Botanic Garden, we can take them down hermit gulch, so you can actually see the part of the Trens the new trans Catalina trail. So we're you we got options. Yeah. And it's just nice to explore them all. Cuz, I mean, there's how many miles of trail 280 maybe? 165 miles of like trail trail, and then with roads and stuff, I think it comes up to like two something
Barry Williams 51:30
right. So I'm just excited to get out and experience them all. Yeah, yeah.
Sydney Williams 51:36
So, George, the bison.
Barry Williams 51:38
Yeah. Can we talk about that? Yeah, I've been called a lot of things. But bison is not one of them. Yeah. So what? So you're trying to do this metaphor about a bison with a gimpy leg?
Sydney Williams 51:53
Well, well, no, you're the one that brought up that George has a gimpy leg. So every week when I write the Wellness, in the Wilderness newsletter, I pick like there's a section that's like a note from Sydney, as if I'm not always the one that's always writing the emails. It's cute how I do that in third person sometimes. But anyway, I pick a photo and then I kind of like, it's either I come there with something to say, or like, I pick a photo and then write to the photo. And this week, I was writing to the photo. And so we had this moment where I was sitting there, and like the picture of the bison is George and he's like, almost to the top of this hill. And my first reflection was, okay, if we look at a photo, or if we walk by someone in the context of this photo of this bison, we might look at it and be like, Oh, look, he's so close to the top. Because I think like, or maybe this is just me, I could be projecting the way I think onto like, a generic statement about all humans, but I think like, in general, especially in America, and especially in my lived experience, we have this like, Finish Line mentality, like we got to get to this thing. And then after that is the next thing. And so if we're looking at this picture of this bison, like he's not to the top yet, so we're gonna be like, Oh, he's almost there. But that single snapshot and or like your only interaction with somebody, or you're walking past someone, like we don't see where they came from, to get to that moment, and we don't know where they're going after. So in the context of this photo of George, it's like, He's almost there. But we like there's no space to be held, and no conversation being had about how he walked through and up these canyons to get to this ridge and like the canyon that hill descend down to. And so like, the metaphor was pretty clunky. And I was trying to think of like, how that could translate. And I don't have it yet clearly, because I'm still stumbling on it. But the exercise that came out of it, if we're thinking about like, things that can help you get back into your body and inspire a wilderness memory without even having to be there, like a tip for how to find your wellness in the wilderness this week that I would offer is to pick a photo and I'll use the picture of George as an example. But like, when you come to Catalina Island, and the first time you see a bison, it might be the only time you see a bison. And chances are you're here for a weekend or you're here on a cruise or maybe you're doing the TCT. And that's the first thing only bison, you see. But there's that level of like joy and excitement like oh my god, I saw bison. And then the next level is like think about what that would be like to see that bison with some regularity. Like now you work here, you live here, and you see it. And it's really cool. And then thinking about what that Bisons life might be like and just kind of putting yourself into it. And the point I'm trying to make is I was stumbling on this metaphor. And then I like went through this like visualization exercise looking at this photo. And then I was like, Oh, well, that in and of itself kind of calmed my nerves a little bit. So maybe it's as simple as looking at a photo and imagining what that animal's life is like. Do you have a tip for to help people find Wellness in their Wilderness?
Barry Williams 54:41
Yeah, I think one of my favorite tips I can't remember who said it, but the only Zen you'll find in a mountain top is the Zen you bring up there. However, I find that spending time outdoors lets you find your zen that when you get to that mountaintop and be able to enjoy it a little bit more so
Sydney Williams 54:59
so it's kind of like they work together.
Barry Williams 55:00
Yeah, well, I was reading an article in Psychology Today that was like, the more effort you put into it, the more joy you find in it. So I was a little bit mixed on it. Because you know, the best views come at the top of the tallest mountains. However, the only peace you'll find out there is the peace you bring with you.
Sydney Williams 55:18
So, hey, so any other news? Any other things we want to share?
Barry Williams 55:25
Oh, um, I'm getting really good at pinpointing the people that are that I read about in the sheriff's log at the Islander on the Catalina Islander, I can actually try it. I know who they are. I have a pretty good idea who they are. So I know where the bison live. I have the bison named. And I also know where the interesting cats live on the island.
Sydney Williams 55:46
All right. Yeah. Well, that's exciting. Okay. Anything else? Any final words of wisdom?
Barry Williams 55:52
It's been a pleasure and an honor to be on the show with you Mrs. Williams.
Sydney Williams 55:55
Oh, Mr. Williams, thank you so much for joining me on this episode of Wellness in the Wilderness. So thank you for joining us for this week's dose of Wellness in the Wilderness. I sincerely hope that today's conversation was a breath of fresh air. And I look forward to connecting with you again next Tuesday at one o'clock Pacific on the Voice America empowerment channel. Until next time, take good care of yourself. Take good care of each other. Dream big and be kind. We'll see you next week.
Barry Williams 56:20
Yeah!
Announcer 56:26
thanks for joining us on this week's show. We hope this episode has been a breath of fresh air for you and has inspired you to find your Wellness in the Wilderness. We will reconnect with nature and new again next week. Since 1984, sell your has existed to support your wildest adventures. Learn about their advanced insect repellents and family of technical Lightweight Water filters at sawyer.com